RE: Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff

["BUTLER, Tony, FM" <roaming@xxxxxxx>]

...and of course all these ideas have been discussed in a forum accessible<= BR> to the general public, so it would be easy for someone to print out all
these messages and say "Look your honour, he's only saying he was goin= g to
start up a business because some guy suggested it on the internet" or = "Look
your honour, he even said on this forum that he wasn't that bothered about<= BR> the name".

Tell em a grand and settle on 500 if you can get it......

Tony

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 09 August 2002 10:53
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
>
>
> *except* on precedent of previous domain resolutions you
> *would* lose, and
> probably end up liable for their costs in the process too!!
>
> I am not a lawyer, but if this were me, I would just not take
> the risk.
>
> even if it was an ubercool domain name. ;)
>
> Ian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nikola Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 09 August 2002 10:43
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
>
>
> I would say that I just plan to start business and have web site in > development stage with name in question, so redesigning it
> would cost me a
> money, and I would ask for =A31,000-=A32,000 at least. So you can
> buy something
> for that money, at least.
> =A3100 is really nothing, if they really want that name.
> Solicitor probably
> charges them =A3500 a day.
> Cheers,
> Nik
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Lowe [mailto:ian@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 09 August 2002 10:32
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
>
>
> Having followed a lot of the stories on the Register et al,
> it sounds very
> much like you would get spanked into the floor Martin :(
>
> Remember .com is *not* a US domain: it's a *global* domain.
> It's just the US mindset that makes it common for US only
> companies to use
> exclusively .com
>
> There is a specific .us heirarchy, just as there is a .uk,
> and post Sept 11,
> this seems to be really taking off.
>
> if you are registered after them, they are trading via the
> .co.uk and you
> have not made use of the .com in a non-infringing way, then
> if it went to
> domain arbitration, you *WOULD* lose.
>
> personally, I would take money and run.
>
> Ian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin [mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 08 August 2002 21:53
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
>
>
> OK, Thanks Mark
>
> Sounds like the course of action would be to transfer the
> domain to save
> any of us getting in the sh_t.
>
> The passing off bit might be iffy, the names were redirected initially=
> but are not now. So would they have a case based on this ?
>
> There are so many if's ,my names were registered after theirs, maybe a=
> case for passing off ?,  they are dot.com's - a US name after all= , ,
> they do not hold the trademark, and heck so what if I'm not
> going to use
> the names just yet.
>
> If I transferred the names now would they have a case at all ?
>
>
> hmmm , I may just have to take the dosh and buy a useful HA gadget. > Suggestions ?
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark_harrison_uk1 [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 08 August 2002 20:43
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > Subject: [ukha_d] Re: OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
>
>
>
> Bear in mind that I am NOT a lawyer, and that I am not qualified to > give legal advice. However, I am a senior manager with overall
> responsibility for Domain Name registrations for a FTSE 100 company > with significant web presences Europe-wide. The following, however, > is my personal opinion, not that of my employer.
>
> Firstly, don't get hung up on the fact they use solicitors to do
> this - several solicitors these days have Intellectual Property
> practices that include Domain Name protection along with Trademark
> protection et al. The company may simply (as we do) simply have an
> outsourcing contract with this firm to do this - the fact they are
> solicitors is neither here nor there - the fact they are IP
> Consultants is...
>
> Personally, I think that =A3100 + transfer costs is fair, and my advic= e
> would be to take it. If the company is a large, household name, then > they might go to =A3500 + transfer costs, but are very unlikely to go<= BR> > any higher.
>
> I feel that, actually, the company has acted reasonably in making you<= BR> > the initial offer. The fact that they have threated legal action has > happened only AFTER you have refused to consider this. However, the > fact that they have increased their offer suggests that they don't
> want to make a big deal out of this (but do wish to protect their IP.)=
>
> As I see it as a laymam, there are a number of issues here. The key > issue is that the UK legal system now very much frowns upon
> Cybersquatting - the deliberate registration of someone elses trading<= BR> > name with no intent to do anything other than sell on the domain name.=
>
> However, work through the following:
>
> 1: When did you register the domain names? If you did so BEFORE they > launched their business, then you could claim that your intention was<= BR> > to launch a service using that name. However, if you did so AFTER
> they launced their business, then they could (potentially
> succesfully - this has happened) argue that you only registered the > name as a cybersquat.
>
> 2: If you have launched any service on the names that might cause
> confusion, then they would have a case under UK law to proceed
> against you for "passing off". If, however, there is nothing= but a
> holding page, then you are unlikely to be deemed to have any
> liability in respect of passing off.
>
> 3: The fact that the names are .coms rather than .co.uks raises the > question of whether the UK courts would have any jurisdiction. You
> could argue that .com is, according the the standard, intended for
> use by US Companies, and that the ONLY basis for challenging a
> registration is that a company has registered a FEDERAL (not State) > trademark as the contested name, and that US courts would have
> jurisdiction.
>
> 4: What do you intend doing with the domains? If you haven't used
> them for the last 18 months, and demonstrably had no intention of
> doing so AND refused a good faith offer, then there IS a chance that > the courts could find in their favour, and you'd be stuffed. The fact<= BR> > you posted HERE that you'd never used the domains, and "not bothe= red
> about the names" might be used in evidence to demonstrate that yo= u
> had NOT registered them to set up your own service with that name.
>
> 5: Do THEY have the name registered as a UK trademark? If not, then I<= BR> > don't think they have a leg to stand on unless you're passing off
> (see above.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
> --- In ukha_d@y..., "Alex Monaghan" <alex@m...> wrote:=
> > I would guess that if you've paid your NIC fees and there's no > trademark
> > infringement, the you can do what you like with your domains.
> >
> > If the only justification for legal action is that you've not use= d
> them
> > AND... you do really want the domains, then get a cheapo hosting<= BR> > account and
> > attach the names to it, put up a simple index.html and their
> argument is
> > blown out of the water :-) If you don't have one in mind, look ba= ck
> through
> > the archives for a post from Chris Bond with a subject of "w= eb
> hosting
> > special offer" (or something similar), I transferred my doma= in on
> this offer
> > with no problems.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Martin [mailto:ukha@o...]
> > > Sent: 08 August 2002 17:24
> > > To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx > > > Subject: RE: [ukha_d] OT: Domain Names LEGAL Stuff
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > I'm hoping someone can help me out here, I have registered s= ome
> domain
> > > names (about 18 months ago, and they are as yet unused). The= y are
> dot
> > > com's.
> > > A company has approached me who own the dot co.uk with the s= ame
> name.
> > > They initially offered a small sum (=A350 + transfers costs)= via
> their
> > > solicitor, I said not interested. Now they are saying that I= have
> not
> > > used the name and have no right too use it and their final o= ffer
> is =A3100
> > > + transfer or they will take legal action !!!
> > >
> > > Heeelllp, should I say stick up your ..... or would it mean = a
> legal
> > > challenge costing me loads which I may or may not win.
> > > At the end of the day I'm not that bothered about the name, = is it
> best
> > > to take what they've offered and just leave it at that ?
> > >
> > > Or perhaps I'll transfer the name for someone else to use...= ..
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Martin.
> > >
> > >
> > > For more information: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
> <http://www.automatedhom= e.co.uk>
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