RE: RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"

["Ian Lowe" <ian@xxxxxxx>]

Phil,
To actually answer your question rather than having a moan.. :)

Trading Standards today seemed pretty clear that Terms and Conditions
as
indicated to the customer before point of sale could introduce
reasonable
exemptions to the distance selling regulations, to cover such things as
a
re-stocking fee, requiring unopened original boxes (some confusion on
that
one in the TS offices) and so on..

I am NOT a lawyer, so you should seek opinion from your local TS, and
someone qualified to interpret the regulatiosns properly, however, I
was
told point blank that if the Ts and Cs published on the website stated
that
a condition of return under the distance selling regulations was paying
a
re-stocking fee, then that was that.

So, to answer your question, you state in your Ts and Cs that return
shipping costs must be met by the customer (forward shipping is viewed
as
part of the sale, but you can insist that the customer pays for the
return
shipping) and re-sell the kit as "B" stock, checked working and
pristine,
but previously sold,  with 10% off, and you charge a 15% restocking
fee.

The result is you lose nothing, your customers are happy, and people on
lists like this spread the good news, rather than getting a grudge for
life.

I know dabs will incur costs through this, and would have been
*perfectly*
happy to pay a restocking fee. They, however, have chosen the
"fu" school of
diplomacy.

I.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Harris [mailto:phil@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 03 January 2003 20:46
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"


OK Ian,

I understand *YOUR* frustration but tell me - what is a retailer
supposed to do with kit that is ordered and shipped then returned?

We can't sell it again because as it's been opened it's no longer
classed as new.

We can't send it back to the manufacturers as it's not faulty.

We *CAN* use it as a warranty replacement item but that relies on us
hanging on to whatever kit it is in the hope that we get a faulty one
sometime. This doesn't apply to things like Prontos as Philips repair
any faulty units that we send back to them so we don't get "new"
units
back from them then.

Everyone wants cheaper and cheaper prices and everyone assumes that the
internet obliges online retailers to run companies almost as a charity
but legislation and credit card companies leave online retailers
extremely exposed. To give you an example, if we get *ONE* Pronto
returned as "I tried it and I don't like it" then that one
transaction
not only leaves us with a Pronto we can't do anything with but apart
>from
costs wipes out the profit from at least three more!

Phil



On Fri, 2003-01-03 at 15:29, Ian Lowe wrote:
> Well,
> Trading Standards have got back to me, and things are looking
good.
>
> They reckon that the legislation does not provide the ability for
a
retailer
> to refuse a resolution under the distance selling regs simply because
the
> goods have been opened. It's (of course) reasonable to refuse if the
goods
> have not been kept in good condition, or the original packaging has
been
> thrown away, but for now, the Trading Standards people reckon dabs are
in
> the wrong.
>
> One of the get-outs, it seems, was the Ts and Cs on the website, and
TS
are
> now  off to check the dabs website, which helpfully says:
>
> "The terms and conditions listed below are for business
customers. We do
not
> have consumer terms and conditions, as these are determined by
specific
> legislation, the Sale of Goods Act 1979, the Sale and Supply of Goods
Act
> 1994, and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977."
>
> So, the printer Ts and Cs don't provide them with any get-out.
>
> I'm waiting for TS to get back to me, before calling Visa. I seem
to
recall
> that my visa card gives me some sort of protection when used online
too.
:D
>
> I.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Des Gibbons [mailto:des@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: 03 January 2003 14:53
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
>
>
> Reading that paragraph, they can only stipulate who pays the carriage
if
> they inform you in writing no later than with the delivery of the
goods.
> T&C's on a website are not on a durable medium.
>
> Did they?
>
> Cheers, Des.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Smith, Allan G [mailto:yahoo@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 14:45
> > To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [ukha_d] RE:Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> >
> > I thought (and I could be wrong here) but following my dealings
with a
> > company called Global Positioning Systems (bunch of lying
b*****s
selling
> > GPS systems who I would never touch with a barge pole again -
glad to
get
> > that off my chest),that if stated in the Terms and Conditions of
the
site
> > you were ordering from that you were liable for P&P for
distance selling
> > returns then they could do this.
> > This is covered by 8.2.b.ii in the referenced doc...
> > "(ii) information as to whether the consumer or the supplier
would be
> > responsible under these Regulations for the cost of returning any
goods
to
> > the supplier, or the cost of his recovering them, if the
consumer
cancels
> > the contract under regulation 10 "
> > Would be interesting if this isn't correct as I can feel another
e-mail
> > coming to the company above...
> > Cheers
> > Allan
> >
> >    Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:21:11 -0000
> >    From: "Ian Lowe"
<ian@xxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Dabs "not exactly helpful"
> >
> > <snip>
> > For full details of the directive please see
> > http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
"
> > <snip>
> >
> > I note that in contrast to your statement on www.dabs.com, I am
under no
> > obligation whatsoever to pay for return carriage:
> >
> > "The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the
goods
> > except at his
> > own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in
> > another durable
> > medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the
> > supplier and given
> > to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods
are
> > collected
> > from those premises."
> >
> > I Lowe.
> >
> > http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
> > Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> > Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx
> > Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
> > List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
> >
> > List of UKHA Groups here -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKHA_Grouplists/
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
> Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
> List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
>
> List of UKHA Groups here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKHA_Grouplists/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
> Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
> List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
>
> List of UKHA Groups here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKHA_Grouplists/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>



http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx
Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
List of UKHA Groups here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKHA_Grouplists/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx 
Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx 
Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx 
List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
List of UKHA Groups here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKHA_Grouplists/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.