Re: C-BUS vs. EIB

["David Buckley" <db@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Hawes,Timothy Edward (GEG)"
<haweste@a...> wrote:

This post is probably too long, but here goes...

> EIB & DIY - Siemens, in the UK at least, are *not* interested
> in the DIY route for EIB and I've had that from the "horses
mouth"
> as it were :-(

> A quick google ("buy EIB module") didn't throw up any
vendors
> for EIB products (not that I could see anyway) only links to
> EIB Partners

Strictly, you cant buy an EIB module.  Its a nit-picky point, but
EIB is a protocol, the modules are made by manufacturers, and in
Siemens case, their stuff is called instabus.  See below for some
more names.

Anyway, the horses mouth at Siemens (and I've forgotten the chaps
name) should have pointed you to Eddie at AC Electrical in
Christchurch, who will sell you whatever you want.  As will Dome
Systems.  Eddie will fax you the price list, that runs to about
fifteen pages of Excel printout.

Dome will sell you the starter kit, which has a CD with the
downloadable stuff, and a selection of bits, the list of which is
in this message - http://www.ukha-archive.com/archives/2004-
jan/msg01434.html - which when I bought was (IIRC) 515UKP+VAT, and
the value of the contents was 814+VAT.  Cant see it on Eddie's fax.
Part number is (I think) "5WG1 840-0AB01"

> Maybe DIY for EIB *is* a valid option, but one that requires
> more legwork than the CBus route. Maybe it's not that much
> more legwork after all and I just need to find the right
> route into it ?

The big advantage of CBUs is theres lots of folks on this list who
have it!  Thus friendly advice is nearby.  There also is a "free"
training course, which when I did it I found really useful.

> I'm not knocking EIB, and as you point out there are
> work-arounds, but it does seem harder to break into than CBus,
> for example. I think we'd all benefit from a more open market
> and greater competition :-)

There is great competition in the EIB market.

The official line is: "In the summer of 1997, roughly 50
manufacturers offer 2,500 commercial products, covering application
domains such as heating control, energy management, security,time
and event management, lighting control. Though compatible, EIB
implementations are marketed under various brand names such as
instabus, Tebis, i-bus EIB, Powernet, Home Electronic System,
Domotik, ImmoCAD etc."

A German on-line supplier at http://www.eibmarkt.de lists nearly
twenty manufacturers of EIB gizmos, and heres the rub - once you've
shelled out for the ETS2 software, you can mix and match any
combination of this kit onto a single system.

The most annoying thing about EIB is the cost of the ETS2 software.

The most annoying thing about instabus is that the combo light
switch plus dimmer modules are really quite deep, and dont go in a
MK 35mm deep box.  Of course, if you do it the CBus way and use
central rather than distributed dimmers, then this problem goes away.

> You seem to know quite a bit about EIB, may I ask how you
> acquired your knowledge ?

By buying a couple of the starter kits, one of which I actually
installed into a bit of my last place.

By being a contractor to a bit of Siemens a while back (not A&D) so
having access to the Siemens intranet and the corporate phonebook!!!

And good documentation.  Go to  http://instabus.siemens.com.sg
and
select the "information and training" link.  Download, colour
print
and bind all the files in the box.

I see Siemens have "improved" their .com web site.  grrr. 
Tecnical
documentation is on this page:

http://www.ad.siemens.de/et/gamma/html_76/support/techdoku.htm

To get a full list of parts and links to their docs go to
the "product datas and description" link, and then click on the
word "updates".

Finally, lets be clear - I'm not knocking CBus - its also excellent
kit.

However, there are some subtle philosophical differences between the
two.  For example:  CBus tend to put the smarts in the switch, so
you have the standard switches, the sceneset switches, and the neo.
Siemens (and most other EIBers) have dumb switches, and you add the
intelligence elsewhere.  Some EIBers make dimmers with integrated
sceneset capability, or you use a sceneset module in the
distribution box.

Since the EIB switches are dumb and cheap, if you redecorate and
fancy a change of finish, or just plain bust the thing, you just
change the button and surround thing, and reprogram the button to
have the same address as the old one.  All the behind-the-scenes
stuff, the non-cosmetic, non WAF approval gear, all just stays the
same.

So to make an informed choice, you really need to do a costed design
for both systems, and see if you like (a) the price, (b) the
cosmetics, (c) the interoperability, and (d) the wiring, and (e) the
workload.



UK Home Automation Meet 2004 - BOOK NOW!
http://www.ukha2004.com

http://www.automatedhome.co.uk
Post message: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subscribe:  ukha_d-subscribe@xxxxxxx
Unsubscribe:  ukha_d-unsubscribe@xxxxxxx
List owner:  ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx