RE: single & earth??? wiring help needed!

["JT @ Home" <Jonathan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kevin,

=20

Many thanks for your comments on this.

=20

As I understand it, I=92m alright with the regulations, the property I=92m
=
doing
this on, the owners brother is an electrician (also a friend of mine) and
he=92s just left sunny Sheffield to go and live in Greenock and has asked
m=
e
to do this, on the proviso when he=92s next down here, he=92ll come and
che=
ck
everything.

=20

On a related note, trying to find the pendant connections from the loft
wit=
h
about 12=94 of insulation isn=92t the easiest task either, so, I use a
leng=
th of
wood (about =BD=94 dia=92) to push through where the pendant is in the
bedr=
oom, go
into the loft =96 locate big stick (with t+e taped on the end) and pull
sti=
ck
through.

=20

Is there another, more elegant solution, or is it best to use =91big
sticks=
=92??

=20

Kind regards,

Jonathan

=20

_____=20=20

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Kevin Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:05 PM
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] single & earth??? wiring help needed!

=20

JT @ Home wrote:
> Morning!
>
>=20=20
>
> I was asked to install a second light and switch into a friends
property
> yesterday, so I went over and installed the fitting & the switch,
leaving
> just the final connection to be made. So after much insulation
shifting i=
n
> the loft, I found what I understand to be the lighting circuit.
However!
It
> only seems to be a single live and earth in one casing.
>
>
>=20=20=20

(Disclaimer - I'm not an electrician !!!!)

Just a comment...  do be careful as you are probably treading dangerously
r=
e
the new the regs - even more so if putting in someone elses' property, I
expect there may be lots of liability issues here.  Is it possible this
single wire you found is destined for a switch ? ie a switched live or live
feed to same. ?


> So I need to find the neutral connection to it, would this be located
at
the
> light fitting? Iirc there are 3x single and earth connectors at each
ceiling
> pendant.
>
>=20=20=20
All the down pendants must have a switched live, neutral and now under=20
latest regs an earth connection. Most will also have a permanent live=20
connection.    . Live and switched live go to switches - plus an earth=20
of course, neutrals are not usually taken to switches.  I have seen the=20
lives looped around switches acting as the only supply to the lighting=20
circuit with only switched live present at pendants, maybe you have this=20
arrangement.=20

You need to be very careful to source the live and neutral from the same=20
feed from the distribution box, thus the current in the neutral and live=20
wire are exactly equal as one carries the return of the other. In any=20
one twin feed cable the live and neutral  currents will then be equal=20
and opposite. This is easiest to achieve I would think from a single=20
pendant source if live is present - yours sound like they might have=20
this.  Several reasons for this but if you do have any earth leakage=20
breaker trips in your supply having unbalanced loads upsets them=20
(causing them to trip) as they decide the current inbalance indicates a=20
leakage fault..  Also you can get strange  situations where despite/when=20
pulling fuses and detaching neutral wires or even isolating the neutral =
=20
neutral via the main switch the neutrals can then become live because=20
their 'live' is fed from a different circuit/dist box and comes back=20
through the loads to the now floating neutral of a different circuit If=20
that makes sense) .  I'm sure there's lots of other issues too but=20
running everything as a T off an existing pendant if possible is=20
probably the most logical and compliant way (if you have live there) as=20
if those are wired correctly yours will be too. If you don't have live=20
there then identify a pendant and the switch that controls it and use=20
that live (on the switch) and the neutral from the matching light=20
pendant - you need an earth too of course.    (Poss other suggestion -=20
may not be easy to do though - run a new twin and earth from the fusebox=20
??)


I'm sure Ben or someone will chip in with an official (regs compliant) view

K
> I'm stuck as to where I can find the appropriate neutral for this new
light
> fitting, could anyone offer any suggestions as to where would be a
safe
bet
> to find it? I just done want to start chopping into cables to find
that
I've
> got the wrong one!
>
>=20=20
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>=20=20=20









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