RE: {Disarmed} RE: Dimming halogens bad for lamp life? Building Regs

["Dean Barrett" <dean@xxxxxxxxx>]

The warping does seem to be a problem - we have sent back 400 for crediting
due to warping. I've heard a range of arguements as to why they warp -
including dirt in the process to the wrong type of Mazac ? - which they add
to the pure aluminium (to make it cheaper i believe), and different size
mounting posts for the spring retaining clips.

I was a strong advocate of the cast aluminium, one for asthetics, two for
quality, three for the lack of a retaining clip as mentioned.

When we first started using the lock ring/aluminium fittings we took a
discission to pay a premium over the press steel variety because of the
reasons above.... How wrong i was :(

We have now started to see warping, though minor, on mains halogen cast
fittings installed 5 years ago. On the less obviously warped ones, no one
notices until they try to change the lamp and find they cant undo the inner
lock ring as it now binds against the warped outer and lamp removal is
impossible.

Going against my original choice we are now back to 'cheaper' pressed steel
fittings with spring clip retaining rings. These have the twist and lock
GU/GZ lamp holder unsuspended which means when you remove the lock ring the
lamp and holder drop out which makes changing lamps MUCH easier !!

Also if you are struggling removing the GU lamps, there are a number of
products available that come with a sucker on them that allows you to stick
it to the lamp and then turn :)

Have a look at both the JCC and Click Scolmore websites, they both do a
good
range of steel fittings that have enclosed backs which are good for
fibreglassed voids - there are links to these through one of my suppliers -
http://www.midshires-electrical.co.uk


Regards



Dean.






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From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rb_ziggy
Sent: 13 October 2005 23:20
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} RE: [ukha_d] Dimming halogens bad for lamp life?
Building Regs


Dean

Interested in your conclusions on the best solution.  We built over 4
years ago and at that time installed mains halogen for the reasons of:

- concerns about diming LV units through X10 and possible transformer
interference with X10 signals (only had one chance to get it right and
noone else to blame if we got it wrong).

- concerns over heat on the transformers (we have underfloor heating
on the first floor and wool insulation under this / over the
plasterboard in the ceiling (Packed in).

- cost.

Only issue is I'm not too happy with the fittings.  They are case
aluminium and some have warped a bit (swivelly collar bit around the
bulb, not the main bit that fits flush to the plasterboard).
Additionally, they are a b***er to change bulbs as they have a bayonet
twist fit - tricky when there is nothing to get hold of.  Others I've
now seen cave a retaining clip that drops the bulb and bayonet out so
that you can easily change.  Unfortunately, I rejected these at the
time because my bayonet ones had a nice bracket at the back (with the
wiring connector on it) that helped hold the insulation off the back
of the fitting.  (Actually having checked a number, the insulation has
not sagged onto any fitting.)

Suffice to say these are one of the few fittings in the house that I
was dissapointed in and given the choice again would do differently.

So if you have any suggestions/recommendations on particular fittings,
I would be interested.  (Unfortunately we have 40+ of these fittings
in the house.)

Regards

Richard

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Dean Barrett" <dean@r...> wrote:
>
> Sorry perhaps the Mains not LV to suit part E was a little misleading.
>
> Prior to Part E - downlight installation was dead easy, LV was our
prefered
> choice due to Mains halogen lamp life, and light output. When Part E
was
> introduced our initial route to compliance was standard LV fitting
complete
> with Intumescent hood which complied to Part E and B.
>
> Coupled with our solution the developers also had to provide their
part of
> Part E compliance and in many instances this was install fibreglass
to the
> ceiling voids. This created a major overheating issue for LV
fittings, 1 was
> that the hood restricted airflow and warped cast Aluminium fittings
which
> means it was getting bl**dy hot in there. The second was that the once
> 'free' in the void airspace were now covered with insulation causing
cutting
> out problems when too hot. All transformers used by ourselves have
internal
> thermal overload trips to ensure the transformer does not melt.
>
> This caused us a major headache as developers still wanted
downlights, but
> we didnt want to install them, as the failure rate was rising
horrendously.
> Then the clever manufacturers came up* with an all in one fitting that
> complies to Parts B, C, and E. This is available in both LV and
Mains, but
> still required the transformer to be placed in the fibreglass.
Therefore we
> go with Mains now :)
>
> * There had been a manufacturer provided part B compliant and the
subsequent
> E compliant fitting around for a number of years, but due to their
> 'monopoly' in that area decided to price to the specifiers not the
> installers.
>
> Long winded way round get to the reason behind out choice.
>
> For those who have read this and are now thinking why didnt they put
> transformers out of the way, fit bird cages/flower pots etc. Simple
answer
> really. Many of these fittings were installed in flats or houses with
MF
> ceilings and concrete mid floors so no access from above, and during
the
> period Nov 04, to May '05 we installed in excess of 3000
downlights.....
>
> Any other queries ref Noise/Fire etc. ask away - i think i've look
at nearly
> every solution on the market
>
>
> Dean.
>
>
> Talk for free - skype me  <skype:dean.rolec?call> Call me!
>
> Try our amazing lighting demonstration online now, and watch in
realtime via
> our webcam. Click below and follow the CBus links.
>  <http://www.rolec.net/>
www.rolec.net
> dean@r...
> Tel: 01908-210677
> Fax: 01908-210678
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
> David Chapman
> Sent: 12 October 2005 15:19
> To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
> Subject: [ukha_d] Dimming halogens bad for lamp life? Building Regs
>
>
> > Have had issues in the past with Mains Halogen generally, but are
now
> > fitting more of them than ever to satisfy Part E of the building
regs.
>
> Why do you need to change to mains halogen to meet the regs ? Would
be very
> interested to know, selbuilding at the moment and planning to use LV
(for
> better light) but there appears to be huge confusion over what you
can and
> can't do relating to acoustic and fire ratings of ceiling.
>
> David C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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