Re: Re: Putting it all together and XAp in a box ??????

["Frank Mc Alinden" <frankmc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kevin

> Amazingly on some devices the most frequent IR toggle is a power ONOFF
> and so having a mechanism to know which of these states a device is in
> is critical - there are probe devices that offer this based on power
> consumption or even synch sensors for video

This is why i decided to build my Probe system ...was sick of having to
check flags  in Homevision every evening to ensure no one  have turned a tv
on / off manually ....I  dont use or need discrete
ON /OFF codes since i can query a device.....and although ir may be old hat
now i can still control any CBUS light in any room with a 6 button
remote...;-)

Frank

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxx>
To: <ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Re: Putting it all together and XAp in a box ??????


>I think most people creating their own HA setups are in similar
> situations - it seems there really isn't an embedded controller
solution
> with sufficient capability available at a reasonable cost . HomeVision
> has held the low/mid ground for a long while and is an excellent piece
> of kit but when you need to expand beyond that there seems to be a
> void.  HomeBrain was sort of aiming at this but never materialised. 
AMX
> and Crestron type boxes certainly have the capability but both these
> companies are out of the typical budget range (particularly the touch
> screens) and are really still dealer install only, both companies
having
> both removed the programming software/updates  from 'end user'
> availability.  This decision is a nightmare when you have users who
are
> more capable than their dealers.  Or there's the PC..and Linux is
surely
> a preferable platform to Windows but seems to lack the HA tools.
>
> Anyone any other suggestions for embedded HA controllers - rock solid
-
> affordable - large capable 'easy to use' script language - lots of
> expandable I/O including Ethernet,   touchscreen interaction ?
>
> Reading below, one thing I would suggest Mark is to remove IR as a
> control dependence wherever you can. It is always going to be a weak
> link  because of it's very nature ...., may or may not be received,
> isn't two way, often uses 'toggle/select' functions rather than
discrete
> codes , steps can get lost in macros and also particularly because you
> are constantly  faced with having to track and model 'assumed' state
> information to decide what needs changing. If there is a possibility
of
> using serial wired links , wired switch inputs/outputs or IP then go
for
> it as these are almost guaranteed delivery and provide two way
> communication.   I'm sure as an automation engineer you've seen these
> issues every day.
>
> Likely you'll want some 'remote' of course and two way devices are
> expensive but RF can help a lot, as can a rock solid TX to RX IR setup
> with the 'smarts' being done based on a single received command (not
> macros in the IR remote) - and converted to hard wired control actions
> and two way communication with the equipment, all  actioned by the
> (embedded) controller.
>
> Amazingly on some devices the most frequent IR toggle is a power ONOFF
> and so having a mechanism to know which of these states a device is in
> is critical - there are probe devices that offer this based on power
> consumption or even synch sensors for video. Even the most foolproof
> macros get thrown when someone pulls the plug to use the vacuum
cleaner
> or presses buttons on the AV amp directly.   Source select is another
> frequent 'press n times for S-Video' type of toggle nightmare, if you
> have auto Scart selection say this can be unworkable.  I'm finding
that
> code to be 'foolproof' in operation is  many times larger than the
code
> to achieve the task in the first place, and hence tends not to be done
:-(
>
>  K
>
>
> Mark Walker wrote:
>> Hi Kevin
>> I see your point and I guess I was a bit vague.
>> But I always seem to go around in circles, with different bits of
kit
>> and different bits of software. you always seem to end up with one
>> bit of software that does 80% of what you want and then you may
have
>> to buy several other packages to make up the other 20%.
>>
>> I am an Automation Engineer in Industry, so shouldnt have a
problem
>> getting to grips with the scripts etc.
>>
>> I guess I am just looking at an easier way to control stuff
without
>> having to buy lots of bits that may or may not work together and
may
>> have other problems like a crash, which if I wasnt there the wife
>> would have no chance of sorting out. So the solid state option
sounds
>> great. Thats why individually each system on its own works well
and
>> does what it should. The Cbus is great, but what if you want to
>> randomise events and use timers etc, you need to use something
like
>> HA which relies on a PC which may not reboot properly, a nuisance
>> when I am there, complete pain in the ass if I am not.
>> Or I could link it to my comfort system, which seems better but
has
>> limitations on memory/timers/responses etc, OK to start with but I
>> can see the automation out growing the capabilities of Comfort.
>>
>> Then you have the home cinema side of things, I have most stuff
wired
>> up and currently use a pronto remote with Pyramid senders and
>> recievers. Kind of does the job and if I am there I can can get
out
>> of a situation where a macro missed a beat or A piece of kit didnt
>> turn on. However it doesnt go down well, when I get home from work
>> and the wife informs me she spent 3 hours trying to set up to
watch a
>> DVD and gave up in the end.
>>
>> So I am after a simillar thing to Kevin.
>> Something that can run in the background to take care of
automation
>> that doesnt require user intervention once set up.
>> Also a reliable and foolproof man machine interface for both
Lighting
>> etc and controlling the DVD and CD jukeboxes, AMP, Plasma etc etc
>> Without getting my ear ripped off.
>> "How come I get sound but no picture."
>> "How come I get a picture and no sound."
>> "How did you say I watch a DVD again."
>> "I thought this lot was meat to make things easier"
>>
>> And when my parents come over I might as well give up when I have
to
>> start explainig why the Light swithes have orange and blue lights
on
>> them.
>>
>> Sorry for the long post
>> But thats where I am at
>>
>> Regards
>> Mark
>>
>>
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