RE: Re: Clipsal Ulti

["michael.furlong" <ukha@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Nigel,

=20

The scenario I have described is the norm in the building industry over
here.

=20

I don=92t believe in running extended lines of credit with suppliers, it
is=
a
personal preference but I believe a business should be able to manage
without. Credit from a distributor is just moving your bank scenario one
step back on the chain. IMHO credit is one of the big problems with
busines=
s
today=85everyone wants 30 days 60 days 90 days and the larger firms can
dem=
and
it which causes serious problems for the smaller firms in the chain. In
fac=
t
I seem to recall there is legislation or possibly proposals in the UK and
possibly at EU level about this.

=20

Please also be aware that I do not sell C-Bus Dimmers/switches etc I sell a
finished install with (I hope) significant value add=85the time gap between
purchasing and being paid is in effect my time of production when I add
value.

=20

Yes we do take advance payments when dealing direct with the home owners
bu=
t
developers and building contractors don=92t work that way.

=20

Not sure what point you are trying to make about the timing but basically I
don=92t order anything until I need it. Just basic good business to my way
=
of
thinking.

=20

My clients are not going to import C-Bus from Australia in fact most of
the=
m
don=92t care about the hardware they just want the final product.

=20

Yes I would like to make more profit (wouldn=92t we all) however I am sure
that cheaper prices would actually be passed on to the clients due to the
effect of competition.

=20

Yes we would all like cheaper C-Bus components but until that happens we
have to work within the current pricing.

=20

Mick

=20

=20

=20

_____=20=20

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Nigel Giddings
Sent: 29 March 2006 08:07
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Clipsal Ulti

=20

Michael,

I suppose this depends on how you run your business.

You seem to have positioned yourself as the bank between your supplier and
your customer.

Why pay for equipment when you take collection, most of my trade accounts
provide at least 30 days before payment is required and this can also be
extended at no cost to me in most cases.

Why do you not take a percentage payment on order from your customer? I
realise this is easy too say and harder to achieve but a discounting scheme
and project delay penalties can work wonders.=20

Cashflow, and the cost of money are major parts of running any business.

I'm not sure of the size of projects you work on but the time from design
t=
o
2nd Fix has got to be at least 4 weeks, even without the 4 week delay you
mentioned below? Even the build industry manages items with 4 - 6 weeks
delivery time, custom staircases, custom windows, custom kitchens,
structural flooring systems, delivery of services (gas, water,
electricity)=
.


I accept last minute changes are inevitable but additional dimmers or
relay=
s
should be ex-stock. Even a difficult customer will accept that a =A31000
al=
l
singing all dancing touch screen (specially made for them)is not available
tomorrow.

As has been mentioned the issue raised is cost of supply. Maybe the 'trade'
receives such large discounts that this seems out of proportion to the
problem... But if the 50 - 100% differences I see between UK and Australian
published prices are across the board (trade and retail) then you or your
customer are losing out on quite a whack? I imagine that labour would
account for 50% of a C-Bus install with the other 50% going in materials,
that equates to up a potential 25% of the total bill made up of the
difference seen is UK - Aus pricing, a significant sum....

That would equate to a significant increase in net profit on your jobs or a
significant reduction in project costs allowing more projects to specify
th=
e
C-Bus equipment. Either way you would win...

Nigel

-----Original Message-----
From: michael.furlong [mailto:ukha@xxxxxxx]=20
Sent: 28 March 2006 23:34
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Clipsal Ulti

Nigel



4 week delivery time would put me out of business.



Cashflow doesn't allow me to place orders 4 weeks in advance of the
require=
d
date.



It doesn't matter how you structure the payments on a job the client will
always leave payment until the last possible minute and then will try and
delay it further.=20



On new builds we have to fit in with the other trades and jobs can easily
b=
e
delayed by weather and other occurrences. Job I am on at the moment has
bee=
n
delayed 4 weeks due to weather delaying completion of the roof. We are
doin=
g
first fix electrical on this job and I won't even be ordering the cable
until the day before we walk in the door. The idea of having to hold 10ks
worth of cbus in stock is just not on.



Most small businesses don't have buckets of cash sitting around to pay for
goods before they are required.



Mick



_____=20=20

From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Nigel Giddings
Sent: 28 March 2006 22:10
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Re: Clipsal Ulti



Kwong,

I think we are both stating the same thing. It is legal for companies
outside of the EU to restrict availability of their product to channels
within the EU and Clipsal make full use of this.

I appreciate Clipsal are trying to establish a robust distribution
network in the UK and may wish to avoid the bad publicity that could be
caused by suppliers with less than perfect after sales. It would seem
clipsal are nervous of letting inexperienced people loose with their
product.

However, people will think twice about buying a product with a 50 - 100%
premium because of the manufacturers policies adopted in country.

I would suggest availability of this type of equipment 'ex-stock' is not
a high priority, a 4 week delivery time would be acceptable as most jobs
are planned far in excess of this. A quick repair/replacement process is
important but that is a different issue.

Nigel





There was a legal case a while ago of Levi vs Tesco. Tesco was importing
Levi jeans from official distributors and sometimes retailers in the USA
and were selling them at discounted prices. A court case, counter court
case and appeals ensued but Tesco eventually lost. The legal case
establishes that the Trademark Directive allows brand owners to restrict
access to their products, at least outside the EEA.

References:

Zino Davidoff SA vs. A&G Imports
Levi Strauss & Co and Levi Strauss (UK) Ltd vs. Tesco Stores and Tesco
plc
Levi Strauss & Co and Levi Strauss (UK) Ltd vs. Costco Wholesale UK Ltd
European Court of Justice (20 November, 2001)

That has nothing whatsoever to do with price fixing. Schneider Electric
have reorganised their distribution channels recently and imposing stock
conditions to enhance their product availability. Any company acting as
no
more than ordering points (ie. they don't hold any stock themselves)
would
find that their dealers' discounts are reduced proportionally.

If you had supported us with your business, you might have found that we
could probably supply your C-Bus requirements from stock.

Regards,

Kwong Li
li@xxxxxxx
Laser Business Systems Ltd.
HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.laser.com"http://www.laser.com"HYPERLINK
"http://www.laser.com"http://www.laser.com
HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK
"http://www.cbus-shop.com"http://www.cbus-shop.com"HYPERLINK
"http://www.cbus-shop.com"http://www.cbus-shop.com