Re: xAP and UPNP

["Kevin Hawkins" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

--- In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, "Jonathan Shaw" <semi.jon@...>
wrote:
>
> I have been reading about upnp an xAP and I understand that upnp is
> pure TCP/IP and quite heavy weight whereas xAP is light weight and
> therefore suited to small as well as heavy duty devices.

That's 'sort of' true.  uPNP is very thorough and complete and as you
say uses TCP as well as many IP based protocols on top of that (XML
http etc). The fact that it uses TCP adds a little overhead above xAPs
UDP but it is really the protocol itself that adds the complexity. TCP
creates peer to peer connections cf xAP's one to many. Think of uPNP
as xAP on steroids if you like. It has same major inddustry
heavyweights behind it but it is very complex,still only partly
complete and manufacturer differences in implementation are already
causing incompatability and deliberate commercial (not cross vendor)
interaction issues. The complexity of the protocol makes it
inaccessible to most enthusuiast type programmers but it is very capable.

>
> Is my reading of this page right?http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?
> showtopic=1596
>
> "A native C-Bus interface under xAP control is available for
> purchase."

Yes - there is a xAP embedded controller for C-Bus ..

> and
> "To my knowledge there are two commercial hardware products with
> native xAP or xPL support. One is IP-based audio player SlimP3 from
> Slim Devices.

This hardware is actually a mix of a hardware player and a software
server solution. Both xPL and xAP conduits are available for
SlimServer, both are software products. The xPL conduit is included
within the SlimServer open source builds and the xAP one a separate
application that connects via the SlimServer command interface (CLI)
using a TCP socket connection.

The other is an IP-based general purpose IO called
> NetioM from Phaedrus Limited"

Yes - this a multifunction I/O device - 16 inputs, 16 outputs, 4 A/D
inputs and a serial port along with counters and latches. It has xAP
inbuilt. It's been shipping around a year now and great for HA.

>
> So a SlimP3 could control c-bus connected devices via xAP?? or visa
> versa.  At <Time> switch on music and lights.

With the help of a controller ..... Something that takes the various
xAP devices and marshalls them into co-operation. There are a couple
of 'free' applications that do this 'xAP Desktop' and 'xAP FloorPlan'
both of which create visual front ends as well as allowing the
scripting control. xAP Destop works with 'widgets' that float over a
Windows Desktop and xAP FloorPlan works via a web interface - but
includes a realtime response interface using AJAX.   There are also
some commerical applications ranging from free to fairly costly that
have either inbuilt xAP support or a xAP plugin available.
MisterHouse, Girder, XLobby , and maybe Charmed Quark are all popular
choices. MainLobby can interface to xAP via HomeSeer. There are more
on the way...

At the high end of control processor you can also use Crestron and AMX
control processors with xAP should you have some programming skills.
The xAP BSC schema dovetails nicely with the internal state model
these two use and interacts over Ethernet.


>
> Seems pretty powerful
> I notice Comfort and Idranet also support xAP so could these
> integration devices control an xAP device??

I am not familiar with IdraNet's support - could this perhaps be xPL
they  support ? There is a xAP application to link with Comfort.   xPL
and xAP can be interlinked using either xPL HAL or xAP FloorPlan.

>
> There was a thread about xAP upnp bridgin about a year ago - it
> wasn't conclusive, is there any such bridge now?  Given that Windows
> XP supports upnp, does that mean if the PC also runs and xAP
> interface the bridge is formed?

Bridging xAP and uPNP is feasible although there is little benefit
currently.  A uPNP audio bridge might have benefits but a lot of
'uPNP' players are closed to the full uPNP schema (eg Sonos).
Unfortunately there are lots of commercial issues that seem to
conspire against the 'u' in uPNP (universal).  There are no 'simple
device' uPNP controllers I'm a ware of - I/O controllers etc.

>
> Finally what consumer devices actually support either upnp or xAP?
> Both seem thin on the ground.

uPNP is in early days - it has huge resource and funds behind it but
it has a way to go yet both technically, commercially , in diversity
and in adoption. I do believe it will get there though. xAP is very
much a tool that is accesible to people now to achieve results today.
But it needs you to be a bit of an 'enthusiast' to use it still.
There are the above software and hardware applications that support
xAP and there are two more commercial software applications, and
another hardware one about to be released.

There are many xAP (and xPL) applications to connect various devices
like Caller ID, X10, hardware I/O, temp and distance sensors, RGB
lighting, News and Weather feeds, Skype, Call logging, mp3 players,
network device monitoring, asterisk, lighting systems, Tivo and aother
OSD (XBMC/WindowsMCE) etc . Both sites have a raft of development
tools available too,  and the interaction of these devcies is
controllable both with free and commerial market leading HA
applications. Enthusiasts are what builds this supported list though
as neither xAP nor xPL have commercial interests.  They just want to
offer a solution to enable it to all work together.

Have a rummage around the xAP and xPL sites for more info...

www.xapautomation.org
www.xplproject.org.uk
www.mi4.biz


HTH Kevin

>
> Thanks
> Jon
>