RE: CBUS problem, can I bounce an idea off you...

[Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks Stuart, interesting reading... - although their own docco
*seems* to
suggest the CBUS units are in fact quite tolerant to voltage
fluctuations..=
.
- 6.9 talking about running on UPS suggests the range is as wide as
190V-265V - in which case, my 196V *should* be OK... - it clearly isn=92t
though...

Is Andy Whitfield the UPS man still here? - If so, - Andy, have you got a
small-ish UPS that meets this spec:

"All C-Bus units that are mains powered are designed to operate from a
sinusoidal=20
voltage waveform. If an Inverter Supply (that produces a square wave
voltage) is used,=20
C-Bus units may not be fully functional or may become damaged.=20
Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) can be used, if the output voltage and
frequency=20
are within acceptable limits for C-Bus units that require mains power.
Thes=
e
limits are: -=20
That the UPS must operate between the voltages 190V and 265V.=20
That the UPS must maintain a frequency of 50Hz or 60Hz, =B13Hz. The
frequen=
cy
may=20
only vary by 3Hz over 1 minute."

Cheers.

Paul G.


-----Original Message-----
From: ukha_d@xxxxxxx [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Stuart Poulton
Sent: 25 September 2012 20:27
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] CBUS problem, can I bounce an idea off you...

Paul,

The not a cbus owner, but the following is interesting reading

http://www3.clipsal.com/cis/pdf_files/Inside_C-Bus.pdf

In particular section 6.8 onwards

Stuart

On 25 Sep 2012, at 20:17, Paul Gordon wrote:

> Chaps, hoping some CBUS users out there might be able to help me
keep=20
> (what's left of) my sanity. - and restore my faith in the absolute=20
> rock-solid reliability of CBUS kit!
>=20
> Over the last couple of weeks, I've noticed increasing
unreliability=20
> with my CBUS install.. At first it was quite rare, the very first=20
> problem happened about a month ago, but as time has passed it has=20
> become more and more frequent, and it's been driving me nuts.
>=20
> In a nutshell, almost every one of my output units intermittently=20
> fails completely. meaning I cannot switch any lights or appliances
on=20
> that module on or off.
>=20
> Most of my output units include a power supply, so my initial
thought=20
> of a network power issue seemed unlikely. When the problem occurs,=20
> neither the CBUS or UNIT led's are on, and the local channel
override=20
> buttons on the unit do not function - for all intents and purposes
the=20
> unit appears completely dead. But the thing is if I scan the
network=20
> with CBUS Toolkit, the unit appears, and reports its CBUS voltage=20
> (30.2V in this case.) - and yet NOTHING is working. - I'm looking
at=20
> one right now. physically it is dead, but it is talking to toolkit.
>=20
> On all occasions when this occurs, it seems to just
"magically" fix=20
> itself after some period of time, which can be anything from minutes
to
hours.
>=20
> I have just started to formulate a theory, based on a few
observations.
>=20
> CBUS Toolkit is not showing the Line/Mains Present indicator for
the=20
> units that are currently "dead".
>=20
> I just measured the mains voltage supply at the input to the
module..=20
> - its currently reading a mere 196VAC on my multimeter.
>=20
> The local power supplier has had the mains off in the area for
several=20
> hours today, - following a letter I received about a week ago=20
> informing me it would be off today for essential repair work following
problems in the area.
>=20
> Now it all starts to make sense.
>=20
> All this time I've been tearing my hair out because of the=20
> intermittent and sporadic nature of the behaviour. - that pretty
much=20
> seemed to logically rule out most types of hardware and/or cabling=20
> failure. - although that hasn't stopped me crawling around the=20
> attic/cellar etc. trying to find a break in the CBUS network cable
(I=20
> thought maybe a mouse was chewing through it somewhere) - but the
fact=20
> the none of the input units *ever* had a problem confused me even more
with the theory of a CBUS network problem.
>=20
> I think the fact that my problems only started about a month ago,
and=20
> the letter from the leccy co can't be coincidental. - I'm thinking=20
> there must have started to be a low voltage condition on and off. -=20
> based on local demand perhaps? - the problems always seemed to be
worse i=
n
the evening.
>=20
> Also adding to the confusion, is that if I'm right, and this *IS*=20
> caused by my mains supply being undervoltage, - absolutely nothing=20
> else electrical in the house has exhibited any kind of problem at
all.=20
> - it's exclusively, and only CBUS output units that don't like it.
>=20
> Looking at the manual for the units, it does specify supply voltage=20
> 220-240V
> - Mine is currently well under.=20
>=20
> So my question is this. - on the CBUS units *with* power supply,
I'm=20
> guessing it must be true that the CBUS circuitry in that unit can=20
> still function on CBUS network power coming from other powered
units..=20
> - even if the unit isn't on the mains itself. - my observations
suggest
this is true.
> - which is why it still talks to toolkit, as some other units in=20
> different parts of the house are still "alive" and supplying
CBUS network
power.
>=20
> Does anyone know if the CBUS output units really *are* that
sensitive=20
> to variations in mains supply? - and if so, might it be true that=20
> units without a CBUS power supply are LESS sensitive? - because it=20
> seems to be the case that I've never had a problem with a couple of
units
that lack a PSU.
> (although they are closer to the incoming mains well, so that may
be=20
> the reason).
>=20
> Off to complain to the local leccy company methinks!
>=20
> If you got this far.. Thanks for listening!
>=20
> Paul G.
>=20
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>=20
>=20



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