Re: Anyone using much Z-wave?

[Kevin Hawkins <yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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I'm also dabbling with Z-Wave a bit at the moment Paul - not sure if
I'll invest more or not so I'm interested in the comments here.

I have a Vera controller plus a Vera Lite.  Each can attach to only one
Z-Wave network but then they can then be bridged together, or one can be
a secondary controller on the same network .  I haven't really looked
into the primary/secondary controller nuances much yet.  I do have a
couple of PC apps and an Aeon Z-Wave stick too but not played yet
because of this.

I only have a few Z-Wave modules, mainly Fibaro plus some temp/PIRs, but
they seem to work OK however the range/distance is limited. I think if I
did invest in more units the mesh would be more robust.   I have a
fairly large ZigBee (Plugwise) network too so there may be some RF
interference here.

I do have quite a few Danfoss Z-Wave radiator valves.  The  later
standard Z-Wave only 'Z' version rather than the proprietory / dual
ones.  Their functionality is very limited though. Basically you can set
a room temperature but little else, and you must await their wakeup
interval to change this setpoint.    The alternative 'Stellar Z' has
more features but it looks so grotty -  like a homebrew white box...
This winter will be the proving ground. I'm not convinced that wired
actuators isn't the better option here.

I just got involved with Vera based on someone using it (badly) with
xAP. So I have now nearly finished (isn't that always the case)  a Vera
xAP plugin and it's working really well.   Anyone interested in beta
testing just shout.  One nicety of Vera is that it also exposes devices
via UPnP , so you can also use any UPnP controller.  It's highly
flexible from a programming point of view but micasaverde are not
supporting it well currently, maybe because they have Vera Plus a new
modellanding soon, which they showed way back at CES in January, or
maybe because they moved onto more OEM work.

I haven't any experience of the Comfort Z-Wave UCM and how it handles
the expanding range of Z-Wave devices.  Their UCM implementations tend
to be very defined interfaces to other protocols which is what Comfort
needs I suppose. Also not sure if it has to be the primary controller
and if so how any other secondary Z-Wave control is impacted.  Multiple
points of control for Z-Wave is something I need to better familiarise
myself with.

K

On 26/09/2013 10:11, ianh1000@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I have recently replaced all of my old X10 gear but still using your
> original Comfort system ;-)
>
>
> I am running 2 different Z-wave systems at the moment. I am part of a
> beta trial for EON's greener energy solutions. They are trialing a
> number of applications based on Zwave, as part of this trial I have a
> lot of plug in modules that I can control and get lots of interesting
> reports on energy use, I also have remote heating control, including
> radiators and just starting with connected lighting that uses wireless
> controlled light bulbs.
>
>
> This E.ON solution is designed for the consumer so while Zwave based
> it is locked down, it uses a small gateway linked back to a cloud
> based service. I am trying to find time to write a review for AH as
> EON are OK for me to do so.
>
>
> I am also using a Veralite unit at home connected to various sensors
> and wall mounted light switches. This is a lot more open with various
> plug in applications and s strong developer fourm. It works with the
> EON devices but they can only be associated with one gateway at a
> time. I plan to move this setup (or some of it) to a holiday let in
> Dorset.
>
>
> The Zwave products are way more reliable than X10 and you get status
> of devices. The mesh network seems to be quite reliable but distance
> is limited. I had EON sockets on the garage freezer which is only
> about 8m away from the nearest internal Zwave device. This distance
> was unreliable.
>
>
> I would love to link up with Comfort but I think I would need to
> upgrade to Comfort 2 to support that UCM, that is quite lot of money.
> I am considering just using a FIbaro universal connector to allow the
> Comfort system to run Zwave macros or vice versa. I am not sure how
> the comfort Zwave works, I think you would have to have a controller
> in addition as one of the "features" of Zwave is that the
node needs
> to be very close to the gateway for initial pairing. Taking devices to
> your comfort controller every time could be a pain.
>
>
> I would agree with previous comments about proprietary solutions. The
> Danfoss radiator valves for example are Zwave but have a propitiatory
> protocol used to send back room temperature information.
>
>
> I am also considering the Ziapato solution as it has the ability to
> support other technologies with plug in modules.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---In ukha_d@xxxxxxx, <ukha_d@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The chips and licensing all come from a single source - Sigma Designs.
> The chances of them going titsup.com <http://titsup.com> or
> slaughtering their cash cow are pretty remote I'd say, so you should
> be safe for the foreseeable ;)
>
> I compared ZWave with X10, but only insofar as both achieved ubiquity
> (and relatively low cost) despite some technical quirks (perhaps
> Windows is a better analogy, hahahaha). ZWave is far, far more
> reliable than X10. It has good WAF. If I press a button, the intended
> result happens. Once in a blue moon you'll get a 'dead node' - it is
> simply a matter of clicking on the "well make it not dead,
then!" icon
> and waiting a couple of seconds. This is usually because an
> intermediate node has died, moved, or been accidentally placed in a
> Faraday cage etc. No biggie.
>
> You have to have a controller, but in your case Comfort is the
> controller? I don't believe you'll need one of those remote control
> jobbers. You can provision your devices near the Comfort box, then
> move them in to place (and 'heal' the network so it learns the new
> topology).
>
> cheers
>
> ant
>
>
>     On 22 September 2013 20:27, Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@...
>     <mailto:paul_gordon@...>> wrote:
>
>
>
>         Cheers for the thoughts Ant.
>
>         From my POV, Iâ??m not honestly that bothered about how
open or
>         proprietary the protocol is, but Iâ??m much more
concerned that
>         itâ??s an investment thatâ??s not going to be wasted
on a system
>         that disappears from the market because a single company goes
>         out of businessâ?¦ and from what I can tell, z-wave
devices are
>         manufactured, marketed and supported by **dozens** of
>         different vendors who all sign up to the z-wave compatibility
>         programme, so there would seem little likelihood of z-wave
>         disappearing in a puff of bankruptcyâ?¦. Itâ??s
a protocol, not a
>         product, so no one company can exert undue influence on its
>         availability or level of support.
>
>         Many of the other HA systems are equally closed &
proprietary
>         tooâ?¦ including some of the candidates I mentioned
earlier;
>         Clipsal CBUS has traditionally been very secretive (a little
>         bit less so now I believe) and the same can be said of SONOS,
>         but that doesnâ??t stop me using, and very much liking
their
>         products, because they do the other thing that I am much more
>         concerned aboutâ?¦ that is, they just WORK, all the
time, every
>         time, with rock solid dependability. That is so far removed
>         from the experience with X10; pressing an X10 button is often
>         a complete lottery whether the signal will get through..
>
>         I presume I do **need** a z-wave controller to commission
>         devices?... I donâ??t need it for anything more than that
>         reallyâ?¦ the logic engine will be comfort, and that
is where
>         all the â??smartsâ?? will be, so have no need/plan
to get down &
>         dirty with A.N. Other controllerâ??s logic or programming
>         environment.
>
>         Cheers
>
>         Paul G.
>
>         *From:*ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>         [mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx
>         <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of
*ant
>         *Sent:* 22 September 2013 16:09
>         *To:* ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
>         *Subject:* Re: [ukha_d] Anyone using much Z-wave?
>
>
>
>
>         Hi Paul,
>
>         I have some deep misgivings about ZWave. I don't like the
>         proprietary, closed ecosystem, and I don't like various
>         aspects of the (admittedly now fairly ancient) protocol.
>         Adding new devices, dead nodes, 'network healing', poor
>         support for mobile nodes etc. Having said that, I didn't much
>         like X10 from a technical standpoint (who did!) and that
>         didn't stop us all from filling our houses with it.
>
>         Ideally I'd like controllers and devices that are all using an
>         open standard like 6LoWPAN, but meanwhile in the real world,
>         you can *actually buy* devices and controllers, and that
>         counts for a lot. Which is why my house has a bunch of ZWave
>         devices in, presided over by a Fibaro HomeControl2.
>
>         The issues I mentioned above are irksome,  but they only
>         really bite you when you're configuring a new system. In day
>         to day use, it's been pretty bulletproof. I stick with the
>         Fibaro controller because it allows a great deal of
>         programmability, either using their visual environment, or
>         getting down and dirty in Lua script, and it integrates well
>         with other systems over tcp etc. I've also tried the Zipabox,
>         which is cheaper, but not quite as flexible. It was similarly
>         reliable though. I hear a lot of folks have had good results
>         with Vera controllers, but I haven't tried them myself.
>
>         The proprietary nature of the protocol still bugs me. I
>         believe ZWave transceivers are available for Arduino et al,
>         but AFAIK these will let you build a custom controller, but
>         not an end device (happy to be proven wrong on that score), so
>         I can't knock up a quick custom device and integrate it in to
>         the network. For example, to automate my garage door opener
>         (which has low voltage open and close inputs) I had to
>         jury-rig a Fibaro shutter module and a couple of mains voltage
>         relays. I couldn't find a ZWave "universal module"
with say a
>         couple of LV ins and outs, but you can often cobble something
>         together with a bit of lateral thinking.
>
>         cheers
>
>         ant
>
>         On 22 September 2013 15:05, Paul Gordon <paul_gordon@...
>         <mailto:paul_gordon@...>> wrote:
>
>         Hi all.
>
>         I'm shortly going to move house, and thus have an ideal
>         opportunity to
>         embark on a "HA done properly" exercise... :-) the
last 15
>         years or so
>         having been an extended beta test!
>
>         All that has passed the beta so far, and which will thus be
>         included in chez
>         Gordon Mk 2 is Comfort, CBUS, and Sonos... X10 is definitely
>         out of the
>         game, but there are potentially some use cases that those 3
>         systems won't
>         fully cover, so I may need to bring in at least one more HA
>         technology, and
>         I'm thinking that may well be Z-wave. (this is based mainly on
>         the premise
>         that whatever new HA tech is chosen *MUST* integrate with
>         Comfort, which
>         will be the brains of the whole thing, and there is good
>         integration with
>         Z-wave via a dedicated UCM).
>
>         So it looks like there is a pretty wide range of Z-wave
>         products available,
>         covering most/all types of devices.
>
>         What I think I need is feedback from the HA community that is
>         actively using
>         Z-wave devices as to its long term reliability, ease of use,
>         robustness of
>         performance etc... to help me decide whether or not Z-wave
>         should be allowed
>         in to the new house...
>
>         So, I put it to you... what are your thoughts, both good or
>         bad, about
>         Z-wave?
>
>         Cheers!
>
>         Paul G.
>
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------------
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>         ukha_d-fullfeatured@xxxxxxx
>         <mailto:ukha_d-fullfeatured@xxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I'm also dabbling with Z-Wave
a bit at
the moment Paul - not sure if I'll invest more or not so I'm
interested in the comments here.<br>
<br>
I have a Vera controller plus a Vera Lite.  Each can attach to
only one Z-Wave network but then they can then be bridged
together, or one can be a secondary controller on the same network
.  I haven't really looked  into the
primary/secondary controller
nuances much yet.  I do have a couple of PC apps and an Aeon
Z-Wave stick too but not played yet because of this. <br>
<br>
I only have a few Z-Wave modules, mainly Fibaro plus some
temp/PIRs, but they seem to work OK however the range/distance is
limited. I think if I did invest in more units the mesh would be
more robust.   I have a fairly large ZigBee
(Plugwise) network too
so there may be some RF interference here. <br>
<br>
I do have quite a few Danfoss Z-Wave radiator valves. 
The  later
standard Z-Wave only 'Z' version rather than the proprietory /
dual ones.  Their functionality is very limited though.
Basically
you can set a room temperature but little else, and you must await
their wakeup interval to change this setpoint.    The
alternative
'Stellar Z' has more features but it looks so grotty -Â  like a
homebrew white box... This winter will be the proving ground. I'm
not convinced that wired actuators isn't the better option here. <br>
<br>
I just got involved with Vera based on someone using it (badly)
with xAP. So I have now nearly finished (isn't that always the
case)Â  a Vera xAP plugin and it's working really
well.   Anyone
interested in beta testing just shout.  One nicety of Vera is
that
it also exposes devices via UPnP , so you can also use any UPnP
controller.  It's highly flexible from a programming point of
view
but micasaverde are not supporting it well currently, maybe
because they have Vera Plus a new modellanding soon, which they
showed way back at CES in January, or maybe because they moved
onto more OEM work.<br>
<br>
I haven't any experience of the Comfort Z-Wave UCM and how it
handles the expanding range of Z-Wave devices.  Their UCM
implementations tend to be very defined interfaces to other
protocols which is what Comfort needs I suppose. Also not sure if
it has to be the primary controller and if so how any other
secondary Z-Wave control is impacted.  Multiple points of
control
for Z-Wave is something I need to better familiarise myself with.<br>
<br>
  K<br>
<br>
On 26/09/2013 10:11, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ianh1000@xxxxxxx";>ianh1000@xxxxxxx</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:l20tn6+12h64dt@xxxxxxx"
type="cite">
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<p>Hi Paul, </p>
<p>I have recently replaced all of my old X10 gear but still using
your original Comfort system ;-)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">I am
running 2 different Z-wave systems at the moment. I am part of a
beta trial for EON's greener energy solutions. They are trialing
a number of applications based on Zwave, as part of this trial I
have a lot of plug in modules that I can control and get lots of
interesting reports on energy use, I also have remote heating
control, including radiators and just starting with connected
lighting that uses wireless controlled light bulbs. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">This
E.ON solution is designed for the consumer so while Zwave based
it is locked down, it uses a small gateway linked back to a
cloud based service. I am trying to find time to write a review
for AH as EON are OK for me to do so. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">I am
also using a Veralite unit at home connected to various sensors
and wall mounted light switches. This is a lot more open with
various plug in applications and s strong developer fourm. It
works with the EON devices but they can only be associated with
one gateway at a time. I plan to move this setup (or some of it)
to a holiday let in Dorset. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">The
Zwave products are way more reliable than X10 and you get status
of devices. The mesh network seems to be quite reliable but
distance is limited. I had EON sockets on the garage freezer
which is only about 8m away from the nearest internal Zwave
device. This distance was unreliable. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">I
would love to link up with Comfort but I think I would need to
upgrade to Comfort 2 to support that UCM, that is quite lot of
money. I am considering just using a FIbaro universal connector
to allow the Comfort system to run Zwave macros or vice versa. I
am not sure how the comfort Zwave works, I think you would have
to have a controller in addition as one of the "features" of
Zwave is that the node needs to be very close to the gateway for
initial pairing. Taking devices to your comfort controller every
time could be a pain. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">I
would agree with previous comments about proprietary solutions.
The Danfoss radiator valves for example are Zwave but have a
propitiatory protocol used to send back room temperature
information. Â </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;">I am
also considering the Ziapato solution as it has the ability to
support other technologies with plug in modules. </p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,
helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;"><br>
</p>
<div class="ygroups-quoted"><br>
<br>
---In <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>&lt;ukha_d@xxxxxxx&gt;</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-1189424726">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The chips and licensing all come from a single source -
Sigma Designs. The chances of them going <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank"
href="http://titsup.com";>titsup.com</a>
or slaughtering
their cash cow are pretty remote I'd say, so you should be
safe for the foreseeable ;)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I compared ZWave with X10, but only insofar as both
achieved ubiquity (and relatively low cost) despite some
technical quirks (perhaps Windows is a better analogy,
hahahaha). ZWave is far, far more reliable than X10. It
has good WAF. If I press a button, the intended result
happens. Once in a blue moon you'll get a 'dead node' - it
is simply a matter of clicking on the "well make it not
dead, then!" icon and waiting a couple of seconds. This is
usually because an intermediate node has died, moved, or
been accidentally placed in a Faraday cage etc. No biggie.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You have to have a controller, but in your case Comfort
is the controller? I don't believe you'll need one of
those remote control jobbers. You can provision your
devices near the Comfort box, then move them in to place
(and 'heal' the network so it learns the new topology).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ant<br>
<div class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<blockquote><span class="">
<div class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726gmail_quote">On 22
September 2013 20:27, Paul Gordon <span
dir="ltr">&lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" href="mailto:paul_gordon@...";>paul_gordon@...</a>&gt;</span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<br>
<br>
<div>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Cheers
for the thoughts Ant.</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">From
my POV, Iâ??m not honestly that bothered
about how open or proprietary the
protocol is, but Iâ??m much more concerned
that itâ??s an investment thatâ??s not going
to be wasted on a system that disappears
from the market because a single company
goes out of businessâ?¦ and from what I
can tell, z-wave devices are
manufactured, marketed and supported by
*<b>dozens</b>* of different vendors who
all sign up to the z-wave compatibility
programme, so there would seem little
likelihood of z-wave disappearing in a
puff of bankruptcyâ?¦. Itâ??s a protocol,
not a product, so no one company can
exert undue influence on its
availability or level of support.</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Many
of the other HA systems are equally
closed &amp; proprietary tooâ?¦ including
some of the candidates I mentioned
earlier; Clipsal CBUS has traditionally
been very secretive (a little bit less
so now I believe) and the same can be
said of SONOS, but that doesnâ??t stop me
using, and very much liking their
products, because they do the other
thing that I am much more concerned
aboutâ?¦ that is, they just WORK, all the
time, every time, with rock solid
dependability. That is so far removed
from the experience with X10; pressing
an X10 button is often a complete
lottery whether the signal will get
through..</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">I
presume I do *<b>need</b>* a z-wave
controller to commission devices?... I
donâ??t need it for anything more than
that reallyâ?¦ the logic engine will be
comfort, and that is where all the
â??smartsâ?? will be, so have no need/plan
to get down &amp; dirty with A.N. Other
controllerâ??s logic or programming
environment.</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Cheers</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Paul
G.</span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
name="1414723ecdc1d598__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d;">Â </span></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm
0cm;">
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;"
lang="EN-US"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ant<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 22 September 2013 16:09<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ukha_d] Anyone
using much Z-wave?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726h5">
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Hi
Paul,</p>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">I
have some deep misgivings about
ZWave. I don't like the
proprietary, closed ecosystem, and
I don't like various aspects of
the (admittedly now fairly
ancient) protocol. Adding new
devices, dead nodes, 'network
healing', poor support for mobile
nodes etc. Having said that, I
didn't much like X10 from a
technical standpoint (who did!)
and that didn't stop us all from
filling our houses with it.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Ideally
I'd like controllers and devices
that are all using an open
standard like 6LoWPAN, but
meanwhile in the real world, you
can *actually buy* devices and
controllers, and that counts for a
lot. Which is why my house has a
bunch of ZWave devices in,
presided over by a Fibaro
HomeControl2. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">The
issues I mentioned above are
irksome, Â but they only really
bite you when you're configuring a
new system. In day to day use,
it's been pretty bulletproof. I
stick with the Fibaro controller
because it allows a great deal of
programmability, either using
their visual environment, or
getting down and dirty in Lua
script, and it integrates well
with other systems over tcp etc.
I've also tried the Zipabox, which
is cheaper, but not quite as
flexible. It was similarly
reliable though. I hear a lot of
folks have had good results with
Vera controllers, but I haven't
tried them myself. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">The
proprietary nature of the protocol
still bugs me. I believe ZWave
transceivers are available for
Arduino et al, but AFAIK these
will let you build a custom
controller, but not an end device
(happy to be proven wrong on that
score), so I can't knock up a
quick custom device and integrate
it in to the network. For example,
to automate my garage door opener
(which has low voltage open and
close inputs) I had to jury-rig a
Fibaro shutter module and a couple
of mains voltage relays. I
couldn't find a ZWave "universal
module" with say a couple of LV
ins and outs, but you can often
cobble something together with a
bit of lateral thinking.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">cheers</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">ant</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">Â </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Â </p>
<div>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal">On
22 September 2013 15:05, Paul
Gordon &lt;<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="mailto:paul_gordon@...";>paul_gordon@...</a>&gt;
wrote:</p>
<p
class="ygrps-yiv-1189424726MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Hi
all.<br>
<br>
I'm shortly going to move house,
and thus have an ideal opportunity
to<br>
embark on a "HA done properly"
exercise... :-) the last 15 years
or so<br>
having been an extended beta test!<br>
<br>
All that has passed the beta so
far, and which will thus be
included in chez<br>
Gordon Mk 2 is Comfort, CBUS, and
Sonos... X10 is definitely out of
the<br>
game, but there are potentially
some use cases that those 3
systems won't<br>
fully cover, so I may need to
bring in at least one more HA
technology, and<br>
I'm thinking that may well be
Z-wave. (this is based mainly on
the premise<br>
that whatever new HA tech is
chosen *MUST* integrate with
Comfort, which<br>
will be the brains of the whole
thing, and there is good
integration with<br>
Z-wave via a dedicated UCM).<br>
<br>
So it looks like there is a pretty
wide range of Z-wave products
available,<br>
covering most/all types of
devices.<br>
<br>
What I think I need is feedback
from the HA community that is
actively using<br>
Z-wave devices as to its long term
reliability, ease of use,
robustness of<br>
performance etc... to help me
decide whether or not Z-wave
should be allowed<br>
in to the new house...<br>
<br>
So, I put it to you... what are
your thoughts, both good or bad,
about<br>
Z-wave?<br>
<br>
Cheers!<br>
<br>
Paul G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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