Re: Hue musings ...

["Phil Harris phil@xxxxxxxxxxx [ukha_d]" <ukha_d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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This is basically what's holding me back from buying a SmartThings hub ...
=
As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable using something that
*H=
AS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server that we rely on the good
wil=
l of the manufacturer to continue to host.

What we 'need' is - basically - a current day HomeVision that supports
ZigB=
ee / z-wave ... I had been wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a
loc=
al mini PC but I don't think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?

(It supports one of the 'Z' formats and I keep getting them confused and
ca=
n't remember which is which.)

Phil

Sent from another bloody fruit-based portable device...

> On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx [ukha=
_d] <ukha_d@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Although the control of Hue lamps from ST is pretty fast it still
doesn't=
achieve this via local control on your network. Incredulously it goes via =
both the ST cloud and the Hue cloud when using a Hue hub.  This means that
=
ST can't control your Hue lights if your Internet is down. A quick
disconne=
ct of the Internet cable from your router will ascertain if a device has
lo=
cal control from ST.=20=20
>=20
> The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong and
doesn'=
t correct even after hours. This means you can't  use Hue status as a
trigg=
er or the Hue switch to control a ST device. If you pair the Hue bulbs
dire=
ctly to the ST hub , thus not using the Hue hub,  then you might get local
=
control at a reduced functionality level. The Hue switch will pair with
the=
ST hub but seems to drop out after a few hours., possibly something Philip=
s has implemented to keep you loyal to their system.
>=20
> The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some ZigBee
device=
s (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a handful of Z-Wave
device=
s. No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally controlled.  Also if you
modi=
fy the device code for any local device away from the ST approved template
=
then it is considered a custom device and won't run locally. Local devices
=
have to have drivers supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via
a=
firmware update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you think about=
it.
>=20
> You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to your hub
wit=
h these links  Warning :-(  you'll likely be disappointed at how few are
li=
sted,  I think there's only the single SmartLights App available currently.
>=20
> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list
> https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/lis=
t
>=20
> Aside from the current reliability issues and the still appalling UK
defi=
ciencies this is my fundamental concern with the ST architecture.  The
othe=
r issues will be fixed over time but this cloud dependency likely won't.  
=
A home control system should control your home locally wherever possible n=
ot relying on Internet connectivity and multiple cloud services.  This is
f=
or speed, reliability and security all of which are impacted by using
cloud=
control.=20=20
>=20
> Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all their 2016
Tize=
n based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product and  currently
th=
e only one positioned for mass market, which is a good thing for HA. So I
d=
o hope they get their act together  - but there's a lot to sort out.
>=20
> K
>=20
>>  On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale groups2@xxxxxxx [ukha_d] wrote:
>>=20=20
>> The new Hue dimming kits don't need the hub - they link directly
to the =
lamp out of the box but you can then link them to the hub for wider
control=
. Important to note that the Hue hub operates the lamps LOCALLY - it
doesn'=
t need to go via their servers for local control which makes it nice and
re=
sponsive. ST on the other hand DOES operate via the cloud servers. With
the=
new v2 hub, they have brought some processing local to the hub to try and =
prevent the longer delays and latency that a cloud based service
inherently=
has. Linking the ST hub to the Hue hub works well as its a local connectio=
n so lamps respond instantly. Status of lamps on ST when not operated via
S=
T can take a few moments to register though. So yes, ST HAS to be
connected=
to the Internet to operate.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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<div>This is basically what's holding me back from buying a
SmartThings hub ... As I said before, I'm really not at all comfortable
using something that *HAS* to rely on using a manufacturer end server that
we rely on the good will of the manufacturer to continue to
host.</div><div
id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div
id="AppleMailSignature">What we 'need' is - basically - a
current day HomeVision that supports ZigBee / z-wave ... I had been
wondering about HomeSeer and running it on a local mini PC but I don't
think HomeSeer supports ZigBee does it?</div><div
id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div
id="AppleMailSignature">(It supports one of the 'Z' formats
and I keep getting them confused and can't remember which is
which.)</div><div
id="AppleMailSignature"><br>Phil<div><br></div><div>Sent
from another bloody fruit-based portable device...</div>
;</div><div><br>On 2 Jan 2016, at 12:49, Kevin Hawkins
<a href="mailto:yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx";>yahoogroupskh@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha
_d] &lt;<a href="mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx";>ukha_d@xxxxxxx</a>&gt;
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote
type="cite"><div>









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http-equiv="Content-Type">








<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Although the control of Hue
lamps from
ST is pretty fast it still doesn't achieve this via local control
on your network. Incredulously it goes via both the ST cloud and
the Hue cloud when using a Hue hub.&nbsp; This means that ST can't
control your Hue lights if your Internet is down. A quick
disconnect of the Internet cable from your router will ascertain
if a device has local control from ST.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
The status of my Hue lights as shown in ST is frequently wrong and
doesn't correct even after hours. This means you can't&nbsp; use Hue
status as a trigger or the Hue switch to control a ST device. If
you pair the Hue bulbs directly to the ST hub , thus not using the
Hue hub,&nbsp; then you might get local control at a reduced
functionality level. The Hue switch will pair with the ST hub but
seems to drop out after a few hours., possibly something Philips
has implemented to keep you loyal to their system.<br>
<br>
The only thing that the ST hub can control locally are some ZigBee
devices (ST supplied devices are ZigBee) and I believe a handful
of Z-Wave devices. No Ethernet device can (as yet) be locally
controlled.&nbsp; Also if you modify the device code for any local
device away from the ST approved template then it is considered a
custom device and won't run locally. Local devices have to have
drivers supplied in firmware so can only be added via ST via a
firmware update ... that's a humdinger of a restriction if you
think about it.<br>
<br>
You can check which devices and Apps are considered local to your
hub with these links&nbsp; Warning :-(&nbsp; you'll likely be
disappointed
at how few are listed,&nbsp; I think there's only the single
SmartLights App available currently.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list";>https://graph-eu01-euwest1.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list</a><br>
<br>
Aside from the current reliability issues and the still appalling
UK deficiencies this is my fundamental concern with the ST
architecture.&nbsp; The other issues will be fixed over time but this
cloud dependency likely won't. &nbsp;&nbsp; A home control system
should
control your home locally wherever possible not relying on
Internet connectivity and multiple cloud services.&nbsp; This is for
speed, reliability and security all of which are impacted by using
cloud control.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Samsung have announced they are building the hub into all their
2016 Tizen based TV offerings. The ST hub is a well priced product
and&nbsp; currently the only one positioned for mass market, which is a
good thing for HA. So I do hope they get their act together&nbsp; - but
there's a lot to sort out.<br>
<br>
K<br>
<br>
&nbsp;On 02/01/2016 11:07, Paul Gale <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:groups2@xxxxxxx";>groups2@xxxxxxx</a>
[ukha_d]
wrote:<br>
</div>
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