RE: x-10 hardware documentation

[Kevin Hawkins]

Just to be clear Alex - there are two types of controller you are talking
about here. xAP and X10. xAP is very new so you can't buy 'off the shelf'
xAP controllers yet - most of the applications are run through a PC.

1) xAP is effectively a software protocol but it can be embedded in
a device either as a sender, which is really a controller, (perhaps a PC or
timer) and also in a receiver - perhaps a little box that acts as an
On/OFF/Dimmer for your lamp. If they were both xAP capable then you would
need some connection between them to act as the network. This could be
Ethernet, serial (eg RS232) or many other possibilities including such
things as radio - as long as data can get between the sender and the
receiver.

2) X10 is a much older technology and has no dependence on xAP - it
effectively allows you to buy a very low cost hardware X10 controller and
very low cost lamp or appliance modules and they talk to each other over
your existing mains wiring. If you have not seen this working then do buy
yourself a couple of modules to play - it is quite enlightening and not
overly expensive. Make sure that you get the correct voltage units for your
country so I am guessing you should buy European modules - there is a
distributor for X10 in Belgium who seems to stock almost every variety of
socket form that Europe uses although maybe not Romanian. You might have to
hack together a converter just to match the mechanics. I will try and find
the web site address and I would recommend you get a lamp module, an
appliance module, a switch or a small controller - plus maybe even a PC
interface- this would probably cost around 100 Euros or something. Maybe
that is more than you wish to invest though. If you are interested I will
help you choose further - I may even have a couple of 'special' kits that
were sold at very advantageous prices here that are a bundle of useful
parts
- I would be happy to send these to you for what they cost me. What is your
mains voltage and frequency - 230V 50Hz ??

xAP appears again now as a way of mixing X10 in with a load of other
technologies that form the cornerstones of Home Automation - temperature
sensors, security systems, water flow, infra red control, audio
distribution, telephone caller ID, MP3 playback, video etc etc. It
effectively acts as the glue that gets everything talking to each other.

So in an X10 setup your xAP controller knows how to convert its
information to a format that X10 can use so it speaks through your PC
connected X10 interface which sends and receives X10 powerline commands to
the X10 lamp or X10 appliance modules you have. Additionally if you have
X10
controllers then xAP will hear the X10 signals and convert them back to xAP
messages. xAP becomes the 'all capable' technology in this and you can
build
your own system up using a variety of different technologies and get them
all talking to each other.

BTW Mark/Stuart - Am I right in thinking we have another Romanian
member of the UKHA list ? Dan the IR man ?? Or is my memory failing me ...
again...

Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Ciurea [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=G8aBD9t0dU4h6mWcrntCUYyD0ikWy8WP9UK1ikYohuTEbF5hmvBqL4HN9DaPVVeYsQHn">alex@v...</a>]
> Sent: 15 April 2003 15:25
> To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=-JBcmvPK23Xa4dirhguilz1CpQ87nkZQgdiC0-Laaa1tb4MDTKSCN0LEkDKFPTj8elaU29j4yq2I8kavxZ_6KXjq0OXtGA">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> Subject: Re: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
>
> Hello Kevin,
>
> Thanks alot for your extra-detailed answer.
>
> Now I get it : xAP is a protocol used to transmit data to and from
> various
> devices, connected via X10, wireless, dedicated wires, etc, etc..
>
> To send commands I need a PIC/Rabbit controller, but to execute the
> commands, I need a decoder for each device? I mean, each device should
> have
> a microcontroller that will interpret the commands?
>
> I presume that in order to light up a lamp, there should be a
> microcontroller (PIC or Rabbit) that sends commands to the lamp, and
> the
> lamp should have another microcontroller (for decodeing) my commands.
>
> So, if I want to make an application to turn on/off a lamp via a WEB
> browser, using X10, I need:
>
> - a PC with a HTPP server;
> - a PIC/Rabbit microcontroller connected to my PC and also connected
to
> the
> mains (that will transmit my commands through mains - using the xAP
> protocol
> via X10 - );
> - a decoder for the lamp, that will decode my commands and will
control
> the
> dimmer;
> - a lamp :).
>
> The dimmer is easy to find in US, but being in Europe (Romania), I
have
> to
> build my own dimmer? I know, I could fly to US, buy some dimmers and
> come
> back in a second, but this is not a long term solution...
>
> Probably those aren't questions for the xAP mailing list, but for
those
> questions I haven't found yet any answers.
>
> Thanks alot,
> Alex
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Hawkins" <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=dfGJEbzDbl7ajiVLFmFlOPcV4MHepS334eE8ozr6KEgUAYieTjtWleTLSyytdQGoJ5RrYVeadIBTC84ehA">lists@u...</a>>
> To: <<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=-JBcmvPK23Xa4dirhguilz1CpQ87nkZQgdiC0-Laaa1tb4MDTKSCN0LEkDKFPTj8elaU29j4yq2I8kavxZ_6KXjq0OXtGA">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 3:05 PM
> Subject: RE: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
>
>
> > Hi Alex - welcome to the list !
> >
> > Most of the talk here is focussed on xAP itself rather than X10
> > although X10 can interact very nicely with xAP and there are xAP
> schemas
> in
> > place to facilitate this.
> > X10 is essential a whole other area and you will find lots of
> > information on the internet covering this - a good place would be
the
> X10
> > main site - and their support area at
> <a href="http://www.x10.com/support/support.htm";>http://www.x10.com/support/support.htm</a>
> > - unfortunately this site is one of the worst offenders for push
> advertising
> > - pop ups etc. There are many other sites of a technical nature
> around X10
> > and a Google search will be rewarding. You can also find helpful
> people on
> > the UKHA main list as almost everyone there uses X10 to varying
> levels.
> > To answer some specific issues you raised.. You can have 16
devices
> > on each of 16 housecodes with X10 - so 256 total devices. The
> communication
> > is by a signal superimposed over the mains wiring - it is
> unfortunately
> not
> > 100% reliable and not inherently error checked or guaranteed
delivery
> so
> it
> > can be a little quirky in use - however it is cheap and cheerful
> > (particularly in the US)where the costs are way lower and the
range
> of
> > products more extensive. The transmission speed is relatively
slow by
> > network standards - I can't remember offhand the exact time for
each
> > transmission but I think it's around 20 cycles of the mains or so
and
> hence
> > expect about a half second delay for anything to happen.
> > xAP is essentially a protocol definition aimed at the
> > interconnection of various disparate devices to allow them to
> exchange
> > information or control each other is some way. As such it is
> independent
> of
> > the physical interconnection between devices which could be any
> electrical
> > connection capable of exchanging data although typically this is
a
> serial
> > interconnect or network (Ethernet). The networks are linked via a
> software
> > bridge application (should you have several networks which in
> practice
> very
> > few people do have). Your networks must also be interconnected
> physically -
> > perhaps by a standard hardware router.
> > The speed of message transmission on xAP is simply dictated by
your
> > physical interconnect speed so at say 10-100MB/s it is to all
intents
> and
> > purposes instantaneous. Some xAP applications are designed to
talk
> directly
> > to each other (although as you will have read every xAP
application
> can
> hear
> > everyone else) - some people will implement xAP through a central
> controller
> > which will act as a coordinator for all the xAP traffic. Really
the
> solution
> > is dependant on your needs.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Alex Ciurea [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=G8aBD9t0dU4h6mWcrntCUYyD0ikWy8WP9UK1ikYohuTEbF5hmvBqL4HN9DaPVVeYsQHn">alex@v...</a>]
> > > Sent: 15 April 2003 08:10
> > > To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=-JBcmvPK23Xa4dirhguilz1CpQ87nkZQgdiC0-Laaa1tb4MDTKSCN0LEkDKFPTj8elaU29j4yq2I8kavxZ_6KXjq0OXtGA">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> > > Subject: [xap_automation] x-10 hardware documentation
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm new to this protocol and I could'n find a summary
> > > documentation about X10.
> > >
> > > Where I could find a brief documentation about x-10
> > > protocol? What hardware do I need to start my own
> > > application?
> > >
> > > I need simple facts, like how many devices can I use
> > > in a x-10 network, how fast can I send the commands to
> > > my devices, what interface is used for decodeing the
> > > xAP commands, how can I interlink two or more xAP
> > > networks... etc...
> > >
> > > I've read some articles from www.xapautomation.org and
> > > I've understood how I can identify my devices, and
> > > other stuff (what can I say, those guys have done
> > > their homeworks because there's a lot of detailed
> > > documentation about xAP) but nothing practical about
> > > x-10.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks alot for your time and help,
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
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