RE: Progress on the xAP to C-Bus gateway - MY FEEDBACK

[Kevin Hawkins]

Hello all,

Well actually I've had quite a few more responses now and they've
all been along the lines of 'wish I could afford C-Bus now but I'm saving
up
and when I have it then I want the gateway' or ' didn't reply cos I don't
know enough about C-Bus or xAP yet to give constructive feedback' so I'm
much more enthused now. The two comments that I received on pricing I have
ignored, one I think was under the impression they had to buy another
dedicated RS232 controller so they feel much happier now.
I tend to agree on the pricing issues - I'm not here to make money
from this as a commercial venture (for sales to UKHA end users) so whatever
I do decide upon then I'm really just be looking to cover costs. A
commercial integration product for C-Bus installers might need a different
approach though. I take Michaels point that the cost of the gateway is
fairly insignificant in comparison to the overall investment and so I think
I will settle on a useful and functional design that provides a solution
rather than a compromise based on cost, although I hope not to depart too
much from the guidelines I've given.
As some of you have courses imminent with Clipsal I'd better pull my
finger out on the Windows version so that I have something available
shortly
once you have some kit to play with. The hardware only solution is going to
be a few months still though.

Kevin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael.furlong [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=WRczOPwi1EGNxV_X7QhZAiRyw0js6bgw4WbtqdzV6N8_aAluWrVkWnYiBzLB9rqWoFijAlW4wbIdf99ZrHzz">furlong@u...</a>]
> Sent: 08 June 2003 03:46
> To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=EYLwti93ns6RM6Jwduj1kjfRI58MYyfFeXd6jW8F31QoyUAHfbfQoO5-hgaNeEt3yOSeq0pR8-HujUz7ah37gF_RRFQ1zhs">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> Subject: RE: [xap_automation] Progress on the xAP to C-Bus gateway -
MY
> FEEDBACK
>
> Kevin
>
> first I hope you got my feedback
>
> second can you quantify the sort of feed back you received?
> Was it just a lack of interest (which may be due to the limited
> audience) or was it down to the cost?
>
> Being blunt if someone can afford to install cbus then the cost of the
> interface isnt a major extra expenditure.
>
> I am still very interested in your development be it rs232 or ethernet
> and I feel it could have a lot of potential as a commercial or semi
> commercial offering.
>
> cheers
> Mick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=0tqnG8Zq9DlGa8g9O2_7yd87hVK-YT-_g52ZZ2PJh5UGx6TRyjMFRwBpgCflDm5Hx4auZROHqQAKzRZ2YuJ0iMQR">lists@u...</a>]
> Sent: 07 June 2003 15:28
> To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=EYLwti93ns6RM6Jwduj1kjfRI58MYyfFeXd6jW8F31QoyUAHfbfQoO5-hgaNeEt3yOSeq0pR8-HujUz7ah37gF_RRFQ1zhs">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> Subject: RE: [xap_automation] Progress on the xAP to C-Bus gateway -
> MY
> FEEDBACK
>
>
> Well - the response to this has been a little underwhelming - so
> I
> don't think I'm going to approach this quite the way I had intended
> before.
> It just doesn't warrant the time and effort. Had a couple of feedbacks
> that
> said if the cost was above 50 it wasn't worth the hardware route -
> actually
> I discounted these but it does show what some people expect for their
> money.
> I hope the general low level of response is because no-one has got
> their
> C-Bus stuff yet so I'm guessing it will pick up later.
> What I hope to do now is release the Win32 application and to
> look
> at the possibility of incorporating a plugin personality into the
> Rocket xAP
> board when such tools become available to third party developers.
> Alongside that I am going to look at just what I can achieve with
> a
> few interesting products I have routed out on the PIC side - PIC is
> far more
> comfortable to be than having to learn C for the Rabbit. I have four
> things
> I'm looking into currently although one is a non starter I believe. If
> any
> of these come off then I should be able to provide a fairly cost
> effective
> Ethernet connected controller for xAP to C-Bus. If none of them come
> off
> then I'll probably just offer the RS232 connectivity - which could be
> plugged directly into a Rocket xAP serial board for example to bridge
> without a PC to Ethernet. Just ups the cost a little.
>
> Kevin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Hawkins [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=0tqnG8Zq9DlGa8g9O2_7yd87hVK-YT-_g52ZZ2PJh5UGx6TRyjMFRwBpgCflDm5Hx4auZROHqQAKzRZ2YuJ0iMQR">lists@u...</a>]
> > Sent: 05 June 2003 13:55
> > To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=EYLwti93ns6RM6Jwduj1kjfRI58MYyfFeXd6jW8F31QoyUAHfbfQoO5-hgaNeEt3yOSeq0pR8-HujUz7ah37gF_RRFQ1zhs">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> > Subject: RE: [xap_automation] Progress on the xAP to C-Bus
> gateway - MY
> > FEEDBACK
> >
> > Hi Mark
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mark_harrison_uk2 [mailto:<a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=5zuGbIJRICy1SmlDaWegcy81W17WeUhJhkA96ZpWZfgUvZ5q6FT0w-dNUDK0oWRXhaOnOeKWz9PhCg">mph@a...</a>]
> > > Sent: 05 June 2003 10:15
> > > To: <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=EYLwti93ns6RM6Jwduj1kjfRI58MYyfFeXd6jW8F31QoyUAHfbfQoO5-hgaNeEt3yOSeq0pR8-HujUz7ah37gF_RRFQ1zhs">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
> > > Subject: [xap_automation] Progress on the xAP to C-Bus
> gateway -
> > MY
> > > FEEDBACK
> > >
> > > --- In <a
href="/group/xap_automation/post?postID=EYLwti93ns6RM6Jwduj1kjfRI58MYyfFeXd6jW8F31QoyUAHfbfQoO5-hgaNeEt3yOSeq0pR8-HujUz7ah37gF_RRFQ1zhs">xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>,
"Kevin Hawkins"
> > <lists@u...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have any C-Bus kit at the moment, but post-UKHA2003
> it's
> > > certainly on the shortlist (against Polaron) for lighting
> control.
> >
> > I know nothing about Polaron but the people that have it seem
> very
> > happy
> >
> > > The thing I dislike about C-Bus is the in-wall controllers,
> so I'd
> > > definitely want to xAP-control it.
> >
> > They are not aimed at HA enthusiasts certainly - their
> functionality is
> > limited - however I think for one of the 'city living' type
> installs
> > they
> > are probably very suitable really - 5 scenes is more than enough
> I
> > would
> > think in practice - but timer / logic functions may need more
> than
> > Clispals
> > timer offers.
> > >
> > > My preference for controllers, best first is:
> > >
> > > - Personality for the Rocket board
> >
> > I would like this too as essentially my hardware is the same as
> this
> > board -
> > an unnecessary duplication if we both make one. However there is
> work
> > to be
> > done in getting the product to a stage where a third party can
> write a
> > plug
> > in or personality that can be imported to the product. A
> developers
> > toolkit
> > perhaps. As there are issues in source code availability for the
> > product and
> > NDA issues on C-Bus it will take a little working through to get
> this -
> > but
> > P and I are talking and hope to have a solution. I am about to
> order a
> > Rabbit board and to teach myself C (again)
> >
> > > - Embedded RS232
> > > - Windows application
> > > - Linux application
> > >
> > > I don't have any need at the moment for a non-xAP version,
> but I
> > can
> > > see how it would be useful as a debugging / installation
> tool (if
> > I
> > > go the PC-application route.)
> >
> > Several people have asked for this - just a simple ON OF DIM
> STATUS
> > protocol
> > not dissimilar to X10 I guess - I'll see
> > >
> > > I'd rather see a xAP - xPL bridge than a separate xPL
> connector
> > for C-
> > > Bus to xPL. I think that there's going to a be a lot of
> effort
> > spent
> > > by people building connectors for both protocols unless a
> bridge
> > > comes into use soon.
> >
> > One of the very neat things in xAP that dovetails very nicely
> with the
> > way
> > the C-Bus gateway works is the UID. This allows xAP switches to
> control
> > C-Bus loads with absolutely minimal overhead (and has reverse
> > benefits).
> > Through a gateway this will be awkward as a UID can't be
> generated for
> > xPL
> > source messages* and the addressing construct of xPL
> source/target
> > addresses
> > is truncated to the extent that it can't support multiple
> hardware
> > endpoints
> > within one xPL device. It will need awkward name value pairs
> within an
> > xPL
> > message body.
> >
> > * When I say can't be generated it would be possible to fabricate
> UID's
> > for
> > xPL sources but the lack in xPL of the hardware sub ID - the last
> two
> > digits
> > of the UID and the content after a : in the longform address is
> > irrecoverable I think.
> >
> > K
> >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
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