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RE: Light levels
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James
Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds as is I am heading in the same
direction as you did. I am certainly trying to keep it simple and I
agree that the sensor position will be absolutely critical.
I was concerned about the impact of season changes and I see that you
did find it was a problem. I guess I will have to wait and see for that
one!
The Netiom certainly does make it easier. I am just using cheap LDRs
with variable pots into the analogue inputs. I have currently set the
Netiom to generate messages when the level changes by 5%. This seems to
work quite well as I don't get too much traffic but it does pick up any
significant changes in level very quickly.
Like you I am just using a recurring event (every minute) to check the
light level and adjust the lights up or down if the level is out of
band. My band is quite wide at the moment (about 20%). I may reduce it a
little but I intend to keep it reasonably wide to avoid unnecessary
changes.
We probably have one advantage in that we don't have many blinds or
curtains to cause rapid changes in light! The nearest house from the
kitchen window is about 2 miles away..
I'll let you know how things proceed.
BR
David
-----Original Message-----
From: xap_automation@xxxxxxx
[mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of James
Sent: 03 July 2005 00:19
To: xap_automation@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [xap_automation] Light levels
David,
I did something similar a while back, pre my xAP days. From what i
remember of it, it was a fiddle! I ended up simply reading the light
level and if it was outside a +-5% of the required level I nudged the
light's dim level by 5% in the right direction. This was done every 30
seconds or so. On the whole it worked ok but as i remember it the issues
were.
Sensor position. This was critical. It must be placed somewhere where
shadows wouldn't hit it and direct sunlight was to be avoided. I had it
above the window pointing inwards.
Time between checks. A big fiddle. On a drawing board you could say the
sun rises and sets so the light level is a simple and fairly constant
fade, nope! Things like a dark cloud going over quickly could cause a
delayed reaction as the sampling intervals could miss the initial fade
to dark and just catch it as the cloud moves away. One advantage of
short checks is you can catch anyone shutting the curtains and turn the
lights on quickly
The temptation is then to sample more often. Then simple things like
reflections hitting the sensor or just people moving around would give
confusing readings and yo-yo lighting.
Size of the band from the required level. This was just trial and error!
Season. Just when all was happy and it all worked, the seasons changed.
Well obviously this didn't happen overnight but the winter light is very
different to the summer one and needs a slightly different set of
tweaks.
I know I tried a few different plans and the one that seemed the best
was also the simplest. Have a light level you want and if the current
level is too low or high then nudge the lamp level a bit, wait and
repeat. This stopped sudden and probably wrong changes of light and as
I sampled the level quite slowly I added a simple sensor to generate a
trigger if the curtains closed.
I must try this all again and see how it goes. Having those analog ins
on the Netiom should make it much easier! Also if a good method gets
worked out i can build it into xAP Floorplan so it'll be really easy for
other to use.
HTH
James
David Pullen wrote:
I have done some searching on various forums and not been able to find
much on controlling light levels. There is a lot of stuff on DawnDusk
etc but I already do that. I don't know if the lack of information means
that it is very difficult to achieve but I thought I would try a few
experiments. I have been using light dependent resistors (in series with
a variable pot) connected to the analogue inputs of a Netiom-xAP. I seem
to get a very good range of readings when the pot is tuned - using
effectively the whole range of the analogue input. The readings are not
exactly linear but they do differentiate light levels quite well.
I am trying to use the light levels to alter the dimming levels via
Homeseer. First of all I created events to react to changes in light
levels but I think it works better if I just run recurrent events that
check the levels and then adjust the dimming level depending upon the
light level. The trials, so far, indicate that it should work but it
will need to be carefully tuned for levels and positioning.
The reason for this mail is to see if any one else has experimented with
this. If it works well then I will apply it to certain well-used rooms
where we want to keep the light levels fairly constant, eg the kitchen.
BTW the events only kick in when the lights are actually activated. Of
course, the idea is that other light sensors (that are not affected by
the internal lights will sense when the lights need to be activated and
occupancy sensors will determine if the lights need to be switched on. I
plan to do quite a lot of experimentation before unleashing the whole
thing on the family (otherwise it will go horribly wrong!) but I am
really interested to learn of any other experiences.
The whole thing could be extended with different scenes for room that
have more variable use although it could start to get rather
complicated!
Suggestions/thoughts/comments please.
BR
David
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>James<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds
as is
I am heading in the same direction as you did. I am certainly trying to
keep it
simple and I agree that the sensor position will be absolutely critical.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I was concerned about the impact of
season
changes and I see that you did find it was a problem. I guess I will have
to
wait and see for that
one!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Netiom certainly does make it
easier.
I am just using cheap <span class=SpellE>LDRs</span> with
variable pots into
the analogue inputs. I have currently set the Netiom to generate messages
when
the level changes by 5%. This seems to work quite well as I don’t
get too
much traffic but it does pick up any significant changes in level very
quickly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Like you I am just using a
recurring event
(every minute) to check the light level and adjust the lights up or down if
the
level is out of band. My band is quite wide at the moment (about 20%). I
may
reduce it a little but I intend to keep it reasonably wide to avoid
unnecessary
changes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We probably have one advantage in
that we
don’t have many blinds or curtains to cause rapid changes in
light! The nearest
house from the kitchen window is about 2 miles
away….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ll let you know how
things
proceed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>BR<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>David<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2
color=black
face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
xap_automation@xxxxxxx [mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx]
<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of
</span></b>James<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b>
03 July 2005 00:19<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
xap_automation@xxxxxxx<br>
<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re:
[xap_automation]
Light levels</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3
color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3
color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>David,<br>
<br>
I did something similar a while back, pre my xAP days. From what i remember
of
it, it was a fiddle! I ended up simply reading the
light level and
if it was outside a +-5% of the required level I nudged the light's dim
level
by 5% in the right direction. This was done every 30 seconds or so. On the
whole it worked ok but as i remember it the issues were.<br>
Sensor position. This was critical. It must be placed somewhere where
shadows
wouldn't hit it and direct sunlight was to be avoided. I had it above the
window pointing inwards.<br>
Time between checks. A big fiddle. On a drawing board you could say the sun
rises and sets so the light level is a simple and fairly constant fade,
nope!
Things like a dark cloud going over quickly could cause a delayed reaction
as
the sampling intervals could miss the initial fade to dark and just catch
it as
the cloud moves away. One advantage of short checks is you can catch anyone
shutting the curtains and turn the lights on quickly<br>
The temptation is then to sample more often. Then simple things
like
reflections hitting the sensor or just people moving around would give
confusing readings and yo-yo lighting.<br>
Size of the band from the required level. This was just trial and
error!<br>
Season. Just when all was happy and it all worked, the seasons changed.
Well
obviously this didn't happen overnight but the winter light is very
different
to the summer one and needs a slightly different set of tweaks.<br>
<br>
I know I tried a few different plans and the one that seemed the
best was
also the simplest. Have a light level you want and if the current level is
too
low or high then nudge the lamp level a bit, wait and repeat. This
stopped sudden and probably wrong changes of light and
as I sampled
the level quite slowly I added a simple sensor to generate a trigger if the
curtains closed.<br>
<br>
I must try this all again and see how it goes. Having those analog ins on
the
Netiom should make it much easier! Also if a good method gets worked out i
can
build it into xAP Floorplan so it'll be really easy for other to
use.<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
<br>
James<br>
<br>
David Pullen wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!-- Converted from
text/rtf format -->I
have done some searching on</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>various forums and not been
able to
find much on controlling light levels. There is</span></font>
<font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>a
lot</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>of
stuff on DawnDusk etc but I already do that. I don’t know if the
lack of</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>information
means that it is very difficult to achieve but I thought
I</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>would try a
few experiments. I have been using light dependent
resistors</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>(in series
with a variable pot)</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>connected to the analogue
inputs of
a Netiom-xAP. I seem to get a very good range of readings when the pot is
tuned</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>–
using effectively the whole range of the analogue input. The readings are
not
exactly linear but they do differentiate light levels quite
well.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am trying to use
the</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>light
levels to alter the dimming levels via Homeseer. First of all I created
events
to react to changes in light levels but I think it works better if I just
run
recurrent events that check the levels and then adjust the dimming level
depending upon the light level.</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The trials, so far, indicate
that it
should work but</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>it will need to be carefully tuned for
levels</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>and
positioning. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The reason for this mail is
to see
if any one else has experimented</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>with this. If it works well
then I
will apply it to certain well-used rooms where we want to keep the light
levels
fairly constant, eg the kitchen. BTW the events
only</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>kick in when
the lights are actually activated. Of course, the idea is that other light
sensors (that are not affected by the</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>internal lights will sense
when the
lights need to be</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>activated and occupancy sensors
will</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>determine if
the lights need to be switched on. I plan to do quite a lot
of</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>experimentation</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>before</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>unleashing</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>the
whole thing on the family (otherwise it will go horribly wrong!) but I am
really interested to learn of any other</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>experiences.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The whole thing could be
extended
with different scenes for</span></font> <font size=2
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>room that have more variable
use
although it could start to get rather
complicated!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Suggestions/thoughts/comments
please.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>BR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>David</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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