Re: Re: xAP control of X10 Extended commands via Homeseer

[James Traynor <james@xxxxxxx>]

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Hi Jon,
Welcome to the group.

As you've guess there are quite a few ways of connecting things here.
In a pure xAP world
x10 is connected to Edward's CM12 app. All communication/reporting  is
done via the BSC schema. If HS has the xAP plugin loaded then you can
add the devices through the new hardware screen. Other apps like
Floorplan  could also control/view the devices and everything would stay
in sync.
HomeSeer x10 to xAP
x10 is connected straight to HomeSeer. x10 devices are setup in
HomeSeer. The xAP HS plugin provides BSC access to the HS devices which
then internally to HS connect to the x10 devices.
HomeSeer using xAP x10
x10 is connected to Edward's CM12 app and it is configured to receive
xap-10 messages ( this is the old x10 schema).  In HomeSeer you use the
xAP plugin as the x10 connector. You setup the devices as usual in
HomeSeer and in the xAP plugin set the x10 target as the CM12 app. Now
when you control the HS x10 device either from within HS or using BSC
then plugin will relay the command over xAP to the x10 app. This is done
using the older x10-request schema. You can optionally setup a second
x10 connector and have HS route different housecodes to different
addresses.

My vote would be the first option. It's the simplest and involes the
fewest conversions between things. Anyways if you could let me know how
you're configuring HS for the devices it may point towards a particular
solution.
It may also be possible that there a few conversion issues when dealing
with these extended commands. They are not something that I've tested
personally as I have no devices that use it, any holes should be easy to
fix though!

HTH

James



Jon wrote:
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> Kevin, yes I remember you well! I think I made a purchase from you a
> few years back.
>
> Edward, I had a look at that earlier but did not get anywhere fast.
> Yes that is the LD11's that I am using.
>
> I'm not sure what xAP protocol that James Homeseer plugin actually
> supports for remote X10 or that I have even any control of it?
>
> If I send an extended X10 this is the xap-header sent:
>
> {
> v=12
> hop=1
> uid=FF411502
> class=xAPBSC.event
> source=mi4.homeseer.jms3.D:DiningRoom.Downlightersdesk
> }
> output.state
> {
> State=ON
> Level=40/100
> Name=Downlighters - desk
> Location=Dining Room
> }
>
> Where to I go from here?
>
>
>
> --- In xap_automation@xxxxxxx, "Edward Pearson"
> <edward.mailgroup@...> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> LD11 devices are supported using the X10 Direct Dim command. You
>>
> need to set
>
>> them up as 'Pro Dimmer' devices and control them using the xAP BSC
>>
> protocol.
>
>>
>> Let me know if that's not working for you - it works for me.
>>
>> I'm using the DIN-rail mounted LD11 dimmer -
>> http://www.simplyautomate.co.uk/productDisplay.asp?prodId=3432
>>
>> Not tried anything else, including the new LD11E dimmer.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> From: xap_automation@xxxxxxx
>>
> [mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx]
>
>> On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
>> Sent: 06 May 2007 14:16
>> To: xap_automation@xxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [xap_automation] xAP control of X10 Extended commands
>>
> via
>
>> Homeseer
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jon,
>>
>> Welcome to xAP. I've visited your HS based site many a few times
in
>> the past and it also inspired me regarding electricity monitoring.
>>
> It's
>
>> a great example, well done.
>>
>> I think with the lack of extended X10 support in UK devices Edward
>> didn't add these features to his connector but he'll no doubt let
>>
> us
>
>> know. I know Michael McSharry uses xAP and HomeSeer extensively
and
>>
> he
>
>> has some connectors that he's written but in quickly looking them
>>
> over
>
>> it appears he supports mainly US only X10 interfaces. I'm not sure
>> there's one you could use here in the UK.
>>
>> http://board. <http://board.homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=730>
>> homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=730
>>
>> He also has written his own/another xAP HomeSeer plugin. I'm sure
>> someone else (in the US) had mentioned a xAP CM11/12 interface
>>
> conduit
>
>> but I can't just remember who. At a hardware level there will be
an
>> opn232 embedded controller launched soon that will provide a xAP /
>>
> X10
>
>> embedded solution. www.opnode.org
>>
>> Leaving HS in control of the X10 interface might not even be a
>> restriction though. I can't remember whether the HS plugins (J's
or
>> M's) support the xAP X10 schema based on HS's locally attached X10
>> interface (J ?) , if so then it's effectively the same as one
>>
> connected
>
>> via E's conduit in that X10 will become accessible as a xAP
>>
> networked
>
>> resource. The X10 devices within HS may also present as xAP 'Basic
>> Status and Control' devices meaning that you have control of them
>>
> via
>
>> the xAP BSC schema and onward to X10. The difference here is that
>>
> the
>
>> X10 xAP schema effectively allows you to form and send X10
messages
>>
> eg
>
>> Device=B7 etc - whereas the BSC schema controls one named end
>>
> device eg
>
>> 'Water Heater' based on the target= line. The fact that the device
>>
> is
>
>> actually controlled by X10 is hidden from the user, which is one
of
>> xAP's purposes - to make the thing just work and no need to know
>>
> how
>
>> it's accomplished. Later if you for example swapped the water
>>
> heater
>
>> over to C-Bus you don't need to change anything in your scripts -
>>
> the
>
>> named device would still work even though it had moved from X10 to
>>
> C-Bus
>
>> control.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Jon wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've decided to start transferring my Home Automation setup to
>>>
> xAP. As
>
>>> some may know, I'm a avid Homeseer fan so most of my
automation
>>>
> has
>
>>> revolved around this.
>>>
>>> Anyway to my problem. My house is full of X10 LD11 dimmers
which
>>>
> support
>
>>> extended X10 i.e. if you set a device in Homeseer to be a
Leviton
>>>
> 6381,
>
>>> it will automatically go to any dim level without going to
100%
>>>
> bright
>
>>> first.
>>>
>>> For my first xAP experience, I decided to run my CM12 remotely
via
>>> Edwards X10 connector and James Homeseer Plugin. Everything
works
>>>
> fine
>
>>> with on/off/bright etc but extended commands fail to work.
>>>
>>> I have searched the archives and the response before seemed
that
>>>
> this is
>
>>> not supported due to the lack of Extended X10 devices in
Europe??
>>>
>>> Is there away around this ( going to 100% bright first is not
>>> acceptable!) or will I have to go back to Homeseer controlling
my
>>>
> X10
>
>>> directly?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Hi Jon,<br>
Welcome to the group.<br>
<br>
As you've guess there are quite a few ways of connecting things
here.<br>
In a pure xAP world<br>
x10 is connected to Edward's CM12 app. All
communication/reporting&nbsp; is
done via the BSC schema. If HS has the xAP plugin loaded then you can
add the devices through the new hardware screen. Other apps like
Floorplan&nbsp; could also control/view the devices and everything
would
stay in sync.<br>
HomeSeer x10 to xAP<br>
x10 is connected straight to HomeSeer. x10 devices are setup in
HomeSeer. The xAP HS plugin provides BSC access to the HS devices which
then internally to HS connect to the x10 devices.<br>
HomeSeer using xAP x10<br>
x10 is connected to Edward's CM12 app and it is configured to receive
xap-10 messages ( this is the old x10 schema).&nbsp; In HomeSeer you
use the
xAP plugin as the x10 connector. You setup the devices as usual in
HomeSeer and in the xAP plugin set the x10 target as the CM12 app. Now
when you control the HS x10 device either from within HS or using BSC
then plugin will relay the command over xAP to the x10 app. This is
done using the older x10-request schema. You can optionally setup a
second x10 connector and have HS route different housecodes to
different addresses.<br>
<br>
My vote would be the first option. It's the simplest and involes the
fewest conversions between things. Anyways if you could let me know how
you're configuring HS for the devices it may point towards a particular
solution. <br>
It may also be possible that there a few conversion issues when dealing
with these extended commands. They are not something that I've tested
personally as I have no devices that use it, any holes should be easy
to fix though!<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
<br>
James<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jon wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:f1kt7r+8t1d@xxxxxxx"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thanks for the replies.

Kevin, yes I remember you well! I think I made a purchase from you a
few years back.

Edward, I had a look at that earlier but did not get anywhere fast.
Yes that is the LD11's that I am using.

I'm not sure what xAP protocol that James Homeseer plugin actually
supports for remote X10 or that I have even any control of it?

If I send an extended X10 this is the xap-header sent:

{
v=12
hop=1
uid=FF411502
class=xAPBSC.event
source=mi4.homeseer.jms3.D:DiningRoom.Downlightersdesk
}
output.state
{
State=ON
Level=40/100
Name=Downlighters - desk
Location=Dining Room
}

Where to I go from here?



--- In <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx";>xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>,
"Edward Pearson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:edward.mailgroup@...";>&lt;edward.mailgroup@...&gt;</a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

LD11 devices are supported using the X10 Direct Dim command. You
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->need to set
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">them up as 'Pro Dimmer' devices and control
them using the xAP BSC
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->protocol.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Let me know if that's not working for you - it works for me.

I'm using the DIN-rail mounted LD11 dimmer -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.simplyautomate.co.uk/productDisplay.asp?prodId=3432";>http://www.simplyautomate.co.uk/productDisplay.asp?prodId=3432</a>

Not tried anything else, including the new LD11E dimmer.

Edward


_____

From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx";>xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx";>mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>]
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
Sent: 06 May 2007 14:16
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:xap_automation@xxxxxxx";>xap_automation@xxxxxxx</a>
Subject: Re: [xap_automation] xAP control of X10 Extended commands
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->via
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Homeseer



Hi Jon,

Welcome to xAP. I've visited your HS based site many a few times in
the past and it also inspired me regarding electricity monitoring.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->It's
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">a great example, well done.

I think with the lack of extended X10 support in UK devices Edward
didn't add these features to his connector but he'll no doubt let
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->us
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">know. I know Michael McSharry uses xAP and
HomeSeer extensively and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->he
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">has some connectors that he's written but in
quickly looking them
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->over
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">it appears he supports mainly US only X10
interfaces. I'm not sure
there's one you could use here in the UK.

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://board";>http://board</a>. <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://board.homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=730";>&lt;http://board.homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=730&gt;</a>
homeseer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=730

He also has written his own/another xAP HomeSeer plugin. I'm sure
someone else (in the US) had mentioned a xAP CM11/12 interface
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->conduit
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">but I can't just remember who. At a hardware
level there will be an
opn232 embedded controller launched soon that will provide a xAP /
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->X10
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">embedded solution. <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.opnode.org";>www.opnode.org</a>

Leaving HS in control of the X10 interface might not even be a
restriction though. I can't remember whether the HS plugins (J's or
M's) support the xAP X10 schema based on HS's locally attached X10
interface (J ?) , if so then it's effectively the same as one
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->connected
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">via E's conduit in that X10 will become
accessible as a xAP
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->networked
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">resource. The X10 devices within HS may also
present as xAP 'Basic
Status and Control' devices meaning that you have control of them
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->via
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the xAP BSC schema and onward to X10. The
difference here is that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">X10 xAP schema effectively allows you to form
and send X10 messages
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->eg
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Device=B7 etc - whereas the BSC schema
controls one named end
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->device eg
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">'Water Heater' based on the target= line. The
fact that the device
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">actually controlled by X10 is hidden from the
user, which is one of
xAP's purposes - to make the thing just work and no need to know
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->how
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">it's accomplished. Later if you for example
swapped the water
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->heater
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">over to C-Bus you don't need to change
anything in your scripts -
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">named device would still work even though it
had moved from X10 to
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->C-Bus
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">control.

Kevin

Jon wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi,

I've decided to start transferring my Home Automation setup to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->xAP. As
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">some may know, I'm a avid Homeseer fan so most
of my automation
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->has
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">revolved around this.

Anyway to my problem. My house is full of X10 LD11 dimmers which
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->support
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">extended X10 i.e. if you set a device in
Homeseer to be a Leviton
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->6381,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">it will automatically go to any dim level
without going to 100%
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->bright
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">first.

For my first xAP experience, I decided to run my CM12 remotely via
Edwards X10 connector and James Homeseer Plugin. Everything works
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->fine
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">with on/off/bright etc but extended commands
fail to work.

I have searched the archives and the response before seemed that
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->this is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">not supported due to the lack of Extended X10
devices in Europe??

Is there away around this ( going to 100% bright first is not
acceptable!) or will I have to go back to Homeseer controlling my
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->X10
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">directly?

Thanks,

Jon