RE: CD players

["Mark Harrison" <Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx>]

Apart from your blatant attempt to start a flame war, you're missing the
point ;-)

We start with the assumption that there's a market for "high-end"
stereo
audio. "High-end" is a maligned term but basically it means
"you keep on
spending money until you can't hear the difference any more!"

To make the "best" audio player, you can either take an existing
specification and push it to the limit, or you can write a new
specification that's optimised for what you want.

- The CD specification is OLD, and written at a time when 16 bit,
44.1Khz replay was pushing the barriers of engineering.

- DVD-V is better, but still a bit of a compromise, and still doesn't
have enough resolution.

- DVD-A is a nasty cludge, primarily because of the fairly horrible way
that anti-piracy technology was implemented.

If you choose the new specification path, then you have to have to
persuade both a hardware manufacturer, and software manufacturers to
provide stuff that supports your new format.  If you're Sony, then you
can do both internally ;-)

- SACD is optimised for MUSIC, and very good at it.

I _don't_ have an SACD player. This is because I believe that the time
is not yet right to buy, and that price/performance will change
dramatically in the next 12 months. For the same reason, I only got into
DVD-V about 18 months ago, once the Pioneer second-generation players
were being sold off cheap to make way for the third generation (I have a
DVD-717).

Furthermore, the most impressive sound I have ever heard (and remember,
I was a classical recording engineer in the early 90s before I switched
to IT), is from a Linn Sondek CD-12. A CD player, but one that has a
5-figure price tag, not a 3-figure one ;-)

Regards,

Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Coates [mailto:ecolume@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 2 August 2001 18:39
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] CD players


Well, for those who 'think' they can tell the difference (ducks) there's
always the new Sony SuperCD system!  Ultra-spec CD player with loads of
features. http://www.superaudio-cd.com/
<http://www.superaudio-cd.com/>

It's amazing, but I wonder if Sony are making something that is a bit
too high spec???
Why not just use a good quality DVD and record in DTS? Or am I missing
the point?

Simon


----- Original Message -----
From: Timothy Morris <mailto:timothy.morris@xxxxxxx>
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx <mailto:ukha_d@xxxxxxx>
Sent: 02 August 2001 05:19
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] CD players

It depends on a number of things - there is more than one way to skin a
cat and there are different algorithms used to convert the digital
bitstream into analogue data. Without getting too technical higher
resolution converters will push any smapling noise way outside the
audible spectrum. Components in the analogue stages will also have an
impact on the final sound achieved. There are some awesome single box
players around the Marantz CD-63 KI sig being one example that springs
to mind. There are also advantages to having two seperate power
supplies, and keeping the transport on conversion circuitry in two
seperate boxes. This does assume though that you are feeding a digital
signal into a good quality D-A converter, and not a 200 quid Sherwood
job from Richer Sounds.

As to digital cables, a number of people cite the PC as an argument for
why you shoulc only use cheap digital interconnects. The CD-Rom to
system board cable in a PC uses a different method of transferring data
to that between a transport and a converter - it is a 20 way (?) ribbon
cable compared with a pair of conductors in an audio cable. There are
measurable differences in analogue cables. Skin effect for one which is
caused by the interaction between the surface of the conductor and its
insulator - which effects the timing of different parts of the audio
spectrum - I think that HF travels more slowly than LF but it may be the
other way round. While some people may find it difficult to tell the
difference between cables in the Audio domain, connect up a high quality
display device using different cables and more of us will spot the
difference imediately ( Ihave to say that I've got 200 quid's worth of
component cables between my DVD player and plasma) Noone is quite sure
why digital cables sound different. Jitter, or timing errors is the most
commonly cited reason.

I'm opening myself up for some critisism here, but I have an esoteric
cable running between my CD player and digital pre-amp, and there is a
difference between that and cheaper cables. I did audition it blind - I
didn't know which was which when comparing the two.

If you want to know more there is an excellent book available (Amazon
stock it) - The complete guide to High End Audio by Robert Harley ISBN
0-9640849-4-5

My advice? Don't go there it starts to get *really* expensive. Even Phil
would have a hard time sneaking some of my kit past SWMBO.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Cockerton [mailto:alancc@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 01 August 2001 20:16
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: [ukha_d] CD players



A bit off topic but I know we have some audio buffs out there.

What difference does it make to the sound quality between using an
expensive or cheap CD transport or interconnect lead assuming the AtoD
conversion is being carried out in the amp, surly the data is
digital,its ether there or not so how can it be changed by the hardware?

Alancc



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