RE: Showshifter & me - all your base belong to us

["Kenneth Watt" <kennwatt@xxxxxxx>]

> Yeah, sorry about the sarcasm, but had a problem with NTL email
server,
> and
> lots of posts I tried to make weren't getting to the list during
this
> debate, and I built up a little tension my end. I apologise of
course
:)
> But
> the more money point.. are we discussing which is the best, or
which
is
> the
> most expensive? Or which is the best value for money?

That would depend on whether you want a one-box solution or not or
whether you are prepared to arse about with half-baked solutions,
personally I'm not and I do not consider having to get SS, some form of
IR comms and a TV output a one box solution.

> 
> >> This is one point I will conceed, that Showshifter before
1.5
sucked a
> fair bit. I did having it running on different
> >> (early via chipset) hardware but I couldn't trust it
100%.
> 
> > I still have an un-resolved audio problem (as does my
neighbour)
with
> sound levels when switching between Terrestrial and Satellite. 
You
are
> right though, SS is mega stable now compared to early
>versions.
> 
> >> I am capturing to a raid array in a silencing enclosure.
> 
> >LOL - very nice, but not really comparable to TiVo is it.

No it's not!

> 
> I will clarify this. It's two 3.5 inch maxtors in two individual
silence
> enclosures - from queitpc.com - so its pretty comparable to Tivo,
they're
> in
> the pc case, not connected externally.

Again, still more expense to accomplish what a pukka PVR does.

> 
> >>I can capture from my S-vhs deck or ntl digibox losslessly or
with
> compression. In fact with compression on I can
> >> capture to a network drive!
> 
> >So can I, on my SS machine :P  But do I now I have
TiVo?  No.
> 
> Um, Tivo can't capture LOSSLESS, as far as I'm aware.. may appear
high
> quality, but I don't think it's true lossless. Important for
highest
> quality
> dvd's for archiving footage. Recompressing an already compressed
image
> tends
> to increase artifacts.

Sorry I fail to see the argument in this. It has been documented on
many
occasions that the output from most digital broadcasters is utter
pants,
so what difference does this make if the source material is not crystal
clear and perfect. Maybe in the HDTV realm I would accept this argument
but not for off-air as it currently stands in the UK.

> 
> >>Oh and I can install more than 2 disks!
> 
> >Two disks in TiVo would give say 240Gig.  10 Days worth of
non-stop
> playback.  Is there really a need for more than that?
> 
> Um, not so far my end, but I'm archiving show's off to dvd, I
guess
you
> archive to VHS? or do you hook tv to a pc and burn to disk. In
which
case
> I
> think we will have to include the cost of that pc in the argument!

I think you may find that a rather expensive option!

> 
> >>It then runs thru a little app I wrote that edits out adverts
by
> watching
> for station idents(mostly for sky1 captures).
> 
> >How does this work with SS?  Have you thought of releasing it
as a SS
> plugin?  More details please.
> 
> Its a script that watches the directory for changes and fires of
the
code,
> this is the first place I've mentioned it. It's still a little
buggy,
and
> the interface is terrible, but it works..

Again, not exactly a fit and forget installation is it?

> 
> >> Once I check the edits, IF I want to archive, I convert the
files
down
> to
> Mpeg2 and burn them to dvd-r/rw. Once I
> >> put a flaging system in place in the recording filename and
have
the
> ident software perfect, I'll move my dvd-r drive
> >> into the Showshifter box and leave a blank in it, and it will
do it
all
> automatically.. Tivo can , um , it can do none of
> >> these things. oh. But the case is nice!

No, TiVo cannot do this, but you miss the point.

TiVo is a pure PVR, timeshifter if you like that is what it is billed
as, sold as and used as, it is not sold with the functionality of a PC
nor was ever really intended to have that functionality.

If you think about it you can see why, the general public, at which
TiVo
is aimed, would not accept the nature of what you propose.

> 
> >Now you're just being silly :)  Mpeg2 conversions, DVD
Writers...how
on
> earth can you compare all that with TiVo?

Agreed, as above!

> 
> >I have nothing against a multimedia PC setup (I mainly use my
SS
machine
> now to play DiVxs to the bedroom or AV Room) but that's not within
the
> remit
> of a PVR.
> 
> I noticed you didn't cover the ad issue.. Strange that...:)

There is no issue with adds, as I said before remember VHS, it has the
same issue as does almost every other form of recording an off-air
broadcasting and the broadcast companies are looking at ways around
this
actively (see the post I made yesterday on the subject).

Adds are a fact of life with TV, get used to it...for example can you
remove the advertising from a football game?

> 
> 
> >> Oh, and I have seen/used a Tivo. The fact most users here
defend
the
> fact
> that their Hard earned money wasn't
> >> wasted doesn't surprise me in the least.
> 
> >And like you're not defending YOUR purchases!?  Difference is
I OWN
both
> systems.  and there's just no comparison.
> 
> Um, I I'm trying to get facts to people, and the Tivo owners seemed
to
be
> ignoring facts. Equally, does someone have to own both products to
qualify
> for an opinion? I can only compare a porsche and a skoda by owning
both?

How can you compare? It is not a comparison!

Your own car analogy is actually rather relevant. Mr X has a choice,
but
a Caterham 7 and be able to tweak it to his hearts content and go play
in it every weekend...but then he has a family, so he has to make do
with a Mondeo as it offers better all round capabilities with the
exception perhaps of speed but he can get the kids in it, the luggage
and it doesn't cut out or slide all over the road at the first sign of
rain!

> 
> >> I think we will see that, providing Showshifter keeps
improving at
it's
> current rate this thread should be quite funny > to look back on in
a
> couple
> of months. For Showshifter users!
> 
> >In a couple of months?  OK...note in iPAQ for end of July -
is SS a
TiVo
> killer yet?  Somehow I think I know the answer to that one
already :)
> 
> Well, as you guys seem to have trouble with most of the facts I
put
> forward,
> I guess that there may be no hope for proving anything to you.

No interesting, IMHO a lot of it is irrelevant to the notion of a PVR
that is instantly useable, but interesting nonetheless.

> 
> >> And for those who wanted my specs...
> 
> >And so this machine with silenced raid array, DVD burner
etc...how
much
> did
> it cost then?
> 
<SNIP>

Just insert "bloody expensive!"

> 
> Thoe only things I went and bought were the hard drives and
showshifter..
> Everything else was already lying around.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, Tivo is a nice pvr. As just a Timeshifter, its
better
> than Showshifter at the moment. The interface on Showshifter is
pretty
PC
> looking.

At last, sense ;-)

> I just believe that Showshifter will be equal to Tivo fairly soon
to
as a
> timeshifter, and can
> 
> play back Divx
> play back dvd's
> play back cd's
> play back mp3's
> Burn to cd/dvd

oh yeah, the mass market wants that right now!

> 
> >I rest my case.
> 
> Um, I can see no one in Tivo land actually want's a two way
conversation!
> Thats what was bugging me when I couldn't post!

It is a two way conversation but you are not comparing like for like.

> 
> Oh, anything scheduled by Tivo for you to watch this week that
they're
not
> telling you about? How kind! ;)

Who cares? I couldn't give a toss what they put there so long as it
does
not interfere with *my* scheduling.

I think you are missing the point here Jason, SS may be a good enough
product I'm not debating that, but it is not robust enough or user
friendly enough to have mass-market appeal. Add to that the fact that
it
is PC based and you have punters running for the hills.

TiVo, Sky+ and Replay are dedicated PVR's that are designed to appeal
to
a very broad rang of people, something SS will never do therefore, they
are not alike at all except in the most basic of functions. Basically
they are designed to be a replacement for a VCR, not to compete with a
PC which is the comparison that has been attempted here.

SS has no competition that I know of as there is no other similar
product out there, so if you want to get all evangelical about it then
fine you go right ahead. But please compare it to a similar product
before shooting a totally different one down for no apparent reason.

Apart from that the machine you are running this on way outstrips
TiVo's
capabilities simply because TiVo was not designed to do what you are
trying to hold as a yardstick to TiVo and the hardware used costs way
more than a TiVo, Sky+ or (presumably) Replay ever will!

K.

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