|
Phil,
That's
still an option. My idea of putting loudpanels is mainly because they can
be
used without ocupying any extra space. I plan to have som pictures hanging
anyway, and someone on the group, who bought them, said that it's
in
the manual that you can change not only the image, but frame as well. So
nobody
will even notice that there are speakers in the room. SWMBO will object
putting
speakers in the bedroom, but pictures are probably fine (they can start
singing
later ;-).
Sorry
guys for not answering promptly, but I became a Dad yesterday and it
already
became harder to keep pace with messages.
Cheers,
Nik
Nik,
Why
not just go invest in a good set of PC/Multimedia
speakers?
There are some very good units out there by Cambridge Soundworks and
Yamaha to name but two. I perhaps got a little overboard here as I have a
nice
little set of Bose active units on my PC that I imported from the US
handling
everything from about 80Hz up and a REL Strata 2 doing the bit below that!
(Maybe a tad excessive for a PC speaker set...)
The
current crop of Cambridge Soundworks stuff does generally sound pretty good
and some of those have small wired "remote" volume controls
too.
Phil
Nik,
IMO,
and remember it is only and opinion, the rating of an amp compared to the
rating of a speaker is a comparison that is simply not worth making for
domestic use the only thing I pay any attention to is the impedance of the
speakers compared to the amp as this is all that should matter. The RMS
output or wattage rating of a domestic amp is normally a bit of a
non-starter as far as I am concerned, I have heard a 30W amp sound better
cleaner and louder than a 100W amp and this happens simply as what you get
using this rule of thumb is a totally non-linear dB scale to try and judge
sound levels and some amps are better than others, not all amps are the
same and they do not play on a level playing field. For some strange
reason the manufacturers seem to use the wattage output of an amp as a
“mine’s bigger than yours” type of thing, when in actual
listening it is
the quality of the amp that matters not the drive it gives, again this is
an opinion. But then if you want to drive huge Jamo speakers and pump out dance or house all night at
breach of the peace volumes…
If
you can drive a line level signal to the internal amp in the speakers then
you would be listening to the input as interpreted by the amp internally
and then delivered to the speakers and, to most people’s ears, the
input
signal would not make a whole hill of beans worth of difference to the
output at the speakers. It will make some difference but I’m guessing
that
for a bedroom system that the ultimate in the aural experience is not what
you’re after, just a decent clean sound.
I
probably got some of this wrong, but this is my own experience and I
don’t
give a fig really outside of my AV room about anything other than
achieving a decent background sound but in the bedroom I use a DAV-S300
Sony DVD system which does fine for what I want, Phil’s the expert on
this
stuff so check with him. Personally I stick to my old adage with Hi-Fi, listen to it and if it suits you, get
it!
HTH
K.
Thanks
Mark,
Can you please
help me with this, just to finish the
thread:
I want to play
music (radio/CD/MP3 whatever) from my amplifier in bedroom. I have no
speaker cables installed, and it'will not be easily possible to install
them, the only cable I have is CAT6 network. I already found that it's not
possible to use CAT6 as speaker cables (it is, but results will be crap),
so my only option is to use KAT5 and transfer line level signal over
CAT6 into bedroom. However, I don't have space in bedroom to put separate
"normal" amp, so I plan to find small, compact amplifier and hide it
somewhere, and install NXT Wharfdale Loudpanels and put them on the wall.
Subwoofer that comes with them, and small amp, I plan to hide under the
bed.
Because,
amplifier will be hidden, and volume control (if it has it) inaccessible,
I would like to control the volume from the main (Sony) amp in the living
room. Of course, I have to sort out IR distribution for that, if I don't
want to walk to living room.
Do you know where
I can find such small amp, which can drive Loudpanels? Just checked on
Richer Sounds, and they don't have them on web site anymore, but I'll find
them somewhere. What power rating I should look for? Loudpanels are rated
as 30W per speaker + 25W subwoofer.
It seems that
you're an expert on this topic (according to the gear you have installed
:-)).
-----Original
Message-----
From: Mark
Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 27 March
2002 11:01
To:
ukha_d@xxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying
rear speakers separatly
Nik,
Everything else you said is perfectly
correct.
Regards,
Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher
-----Original
Message-----
From: Nikola
Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 27 March
2002 10:31
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying rear speakers
separatly
But, is
the rest that I said O.K. or I'm talking
b...cks.
Nik
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Harrison
[mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 26 March
2002 17:41
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying rear speakers
separatly
Nikola,
If you have a volume control, you have variable
gain.
If you don't have
a volume control, you have fixed gain.
Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher
-----Original
Message-----
From: Nikola
Kasic [mailto:nikola@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 26 March
2002 17:04
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying rear speakers
separatly
I think
that trick is then in amplifiers:
You have 3 amplifiers: 2 for front and 1 for rear
speakers.
Integrated amp on
front drives treble speakers
Power amp drives basses on
front
Pioneer drives rear
speakers
I asume that we
can simplify this to having two amps, one for front,
one
for rear speakers. But
it seems that the trick is in amplifiers:
A power amp has FIXED GAIN, rather than a variable
gain, so you need
something
else to control the volume, otherwise it would always be
at
max.
What does this mean? How can I know if amplifier has
fixed or variable
gain?
E.g. I have Sony STR DB 1070 amp, which has 5.1
channel outs and 5.1
pre-amp
outs. I asume that pre-amp ones are interesting ones. Then
I
should connect pre-amp
outs for rear speakers into line in of some
small
stereo amplifier.
I plan to find some small,
compact, stereo amplifier with volume control
only, which can be easily hidden, and connect Sony
pre-amp out ->KAT5->
small amp Line in.
Is that O.K.
Then, I plan to adjust the level of rear amp with
sound level meter at
some
reference level and from then on, not to touch it
anymore.
When I raise or
lower the volume on the main amp (Sony), the
volume
should change on all
speakers.
Is my theory
O.K.?
Nik
-----Original
Message-----
From: Mark
Harrison [mailto:Mark.Harrison@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 26 March
2002 15:51
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying rear speakers
separatly
Git!
OK, here goes, how I do DVD
playback:
ALL SIGNALS
>from
DIGITAL
DEPENDING ON THE
SOURCE MATERIAL
- The
source is a Pioneer DVD player (second black box from the
bottom
on the right-hand
stack)
The audio goes,
via SP/DIF (the single reddy-pink cable), down onto
the
floor, then into the
source switch
- The
source switch is a Meridian 562V, (middle
black box, narrower
width, on the left-hand
stack)
--- It's worth noting
that the other sources, such as the DDAR (top
black box, narrowest width, on the left-hand stack)
that go into the
562V as
analogue get CONVERTED into DIGITAL at this point... All the
DSP
stuff happens entirely
in the digital domain.
Assuming that the selected source is "DVD", this
goes, via (a virtually
impossible to see) SP/DIF cable into the
processor
- The
processor is a Meridian 561 (lower black box, narrower width,
on
the left-hand
stack)
WHILE THE
PROCESSOR IS CAPABLE OF OUTPUTTING UP TO 8 CHANNELS OF
AUDIO,
IN EITHER ANALOGUE OR
DIGITAL FORMAT, AT PRESENT I ONLY USE 4
CHANNELS,
AND OUTPUT THEM
ALL AS ANALOGUE AT LINE LEVEL
Front pair
The main stereo pair come out on a (virtually
impossible to see) pair of
phono connectors into the integrated
amp
- The integrated amp
is a John Shearne Phase 2 (wider width, but
thinner
depth top black box
on the right-hand stack.)
--- the black speaker cables go out of this and drive
the treble drivers
on the
front speaker pair
The
integrated amp also has a line-level passthrough on
the
(purpley-pink) analogue
pair to the power amp
-
The power amp is a John Shearne Phase 2 (wider width, but
thinner
depth second-to-top
black box on the right-hand stack.)
--- The pinky speaker cables go out of this and drive
the bass drivers
on the
front speaker pair
Rear
pair
The rear stereo
pair come out on a (virtually impossible to see, but
you
can see the red and
white boots on the processor) anlogue pair, into
a
KAT5
TX
- The KAT5 TX is
almost out of shot, on the floor, but you can just
see
a corner of it at the
far right on the bottom edge of the picture, to
the right of the mains
block
... this goes into
a CAT5 socket in the wall, back to the patch
panel,
where it's patched to
a CAT5 socket at the other end of the room.
This
goes into a KAT5 RX,
which drives an old Integrated amplifier
(Pioneer
A-400), which
drives a the rear pair of speakers.
Volume controls
The logic in this is that the "changing the volume"
circuitry (pre-amp)
is kept
separate from the "amplifying lots" circuitry (power amp)
to
avoid interference.
A power amp has FIXED
GAIN, rather than a variable gain, so you need
something else to control the volume, otherwise it
would always be at
max.
The pre-amp, which is the only volume control that
ever gets touched, is
on the
processor. The processor, as we've seen purely operates on
a
DIGITAL input, and turns
it into line-level, ANALOGUE outputs.
In practice, both the front and rear amplifiers
actually have volume
controls, but these are just left "whacked up to
about 75%", and the
volume
adjustment is done on the processor.
Mark Harrison
Head of Systems, eKingfisher
-----Original
Message-----
From: James
Hoye [mailto:james.hoye@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 26 March
2002 15:07
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Amplifying rear speakers
separatly
Ahh I
see a man about to be initiated into the "real" audio club
:-)
Go mark go mark go
mark :-)
And feel free
to refer to
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< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukha_d/files/mharrison_avkit.jpg
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